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Change in Pack Order?

I have a 6 year old male, who I swear has gone mental. He has become very needy, walks around & wines, tail is always down...even when wagging, follows me everywhere & wants nothing to do with the other dogs now. As I sit on the couch, every time I move even if it's to shift my weight, he has to get up, come over & try to nudge me. This can literally be 10-20 times in one sitting. This started about a year ago. We have done full physical exams, extensive bloodwork, food changes and we find nothing out of the ordinary. I started thinking about it & I think it all started when we brought a new breed into our home, a Terrier. I believe the Terrier is now top dog and this 6 year old male is no longer. Do you think this shift could dramatically change his personality? He is pretty much borderline annoying and has lost all confidence. Any suggestions? He used to be the most lively, playful show dog....which he is no more.

Re: Change in Pack Order?

Is he part of a larger pack? Sounds like he was the only dog for a long time.
Do you have access to a training center where you can do a one on one activity with him but in a group setting? Here, he can learn what will get your attention in a positive way. Also, with a small amount of training, an older dog makes a fabulous therapy dog. He can really shine then, will get loads of hugs and kisses AND will have a job.

Re: Change in Pack Order?

I think it is the terrier, also agree with Hopbrook's comments. I now have a terrier in for training. My usually relaxed male puts his tail straight up and stiffens when the terrier walks by. I've never seen this behavior in him before.

The terrier is an intact 9 month old male, my male has to pee over every spot the terrier has peed on. The terrier has a very non Labrador but very terrier type of personality - bold, in your face, stubborn, etc.

Here the terrier will leave in two weeks. I feel sorry for your boy and can understand why you are sad! I'd be sure to feed your boy first, let him out first, etc., so he knows he's still #1 to you.

Re: Change in Pack Order?

Thanks for your thoughts. Yes, he is part of a larger pack, not huge, but usually about 4 Labs here. So, he was brought into the home when there were already dogs here and he has never been the only dog. He is almost finished and has a couple legs toward his CD. He's been to puppy classes and obedience classes, so at one time did get a lot of one on one. I am unable to show him anymore because he has absolutely no confidence and sulks around the ring, no ears or tail. He is purely a house dog now and sleeps at the foot of our bed. But, he literally walks around the house following you either whining or nudging you. You can't sit on the couch without him constantly nudging you for attention. I give him the attention but at some point I do have to tell him to stop. On the other hand, he is the best dog you could ever have. Does not get into anything, no problems in the house with marking, doesn't bark...and absolutely hates to do anything wrong. But, he totally caters to the Terrier. I am considering placing the Terrier as he is a rescue and perhaps there is a better situation for him.

Re: Change in Pack Order?

Based on what you have shared- I think you have hit the nail on the head- perhaps the terrier needs to be placed where he can thrive and in so doing, I bet your boy perks right up. Your boy sounds like he has done much of what you have asked of him ("almost finished and has a couple legs towards his CD") and has gotten a lot of "one-on-one" with you in the past. All of that work, leads to a strong working partnership and it would be tough to lose that. That said, its important to set some boundaries with him when he is continuously nudging you- like "go lay down", or "place" (with LOTS of reinforcement when he follows through). Someone mentioned earlier that older labs can make wonderful therapy dogs and you sure have a nice obedience foundation which would serve him well if you decide to go that route. He sounds like a special guy- besides, he does have the choice spot in the house (at the foot of your bed) that speaks volumes

Re: Change in Pack Order?

Anyone who the Terrier could go visit with for a while to see how it affects your boy and if he turns around with the Terrier not there? Then you would know if that was the issue or not.

Re: Change in Pack Order?

I agree, the Terrier. I feel sorry for your boy. Big dogs bark and little dogs bite you. Bet the little one nipped him and still gives him that feeling. Poor boy.

Re: Change in Pack Order?

Breeder also
I agree, the Terrier. I feel sorry for your boy. Big dogs bark and little dogs bite you. Bet the little one nipped him and still gives him that feeling. Poor boy.



A Fox terrier (girl) and I never let her come with me to let all the Labradors out and she doesn't often come on walks with us as she is a typical terrier in temperament, ( she sleeps in side and gets plenty of attention) needs to be the boss of everything and every dog and being a small dog with the big dogs is no barrier to her. Bitch or dog she will take them all on, she is a nipper ( doesn't nip us and is VERY good with small children) but let her amongst the big dogs and she tries to dominate them grabs at them as they run past, Only at times though, she is out on the lawn with all the Labradors as I write this and every thing is fine, however if there is a game of fetch or the like all bets are off she doesn't do competition at all. I have decided when she dies I will not get another although I do like the terrier temperament it does make living with them somewhat difficult. Put The terrier in a home for a couple of months and see if that perks your boy up.

Re: Not necessarily

I am going to respectfully disagree.

IMO I think what has happened is that your dog felt that he was losing his rank so he sought out attention and you gave it. That is what reinforced his new behavior so now when he wants attention -be it Negative or Positive- he will nudge you til you give him something even if it's negative - it's still reinforcing the behavior.
I would suggest stopping this reinforcement, when he nudges you,cross your arms and turn your head, do not respond at all to him nudging or following you. If you have to stand up and step forward with your arms crossed and head turned up and away like you are being aloof. He will quickly learn that the only way he gets good positive attention is if he's doing something positive as well ,like sitting instead of nudging or wagging his tail and alert instead of slouching ,or you ask for him to come to you not for him to bump or nudge you till you do. Try Clicker training this will also reward him for the behaviors that you do want. Trust me they quickly start paying attention to what makes you click and treat!!

We have what one would consider a large pack of dogs, and we have 5 terriers, ranging from a Jack Russell,2 MinPins and a MinPin cross, and a Pit Bull terrier puppy. They live in the house and play together as they wish, they will run in the yard together most of the time though the little ones prefer to do their own thing, and there are no fights. Our male rescue Pin,(neutered) is the second most dominant dog in our pack above another intact male that was already here when we rescued him. When he came to our home we didn't give him anymore attention than the other dogs, nor did the other dogs nor the male he took status over get "extra" because he was here. My male's behavior didn't change because another dog now outranks him - he is still outgoing and confident in the show ring.

Re: Change in Pack Order?

shuffle the cards….add a dog, take away, everything changes, so amazing to watch the pack thing