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Question about replacement puppy?

I am in a bit of a conundrum. A while back I bought a female puppy from a breeder. I paid extra to get full registration on this puppy as a show/breeding prospect. I had OFA prelims done at 18 months. The hips came back as fair. I took the chance and bred her on the prelims. I raised and sold a nice healthy litter of puppies from her. When I had her finals done the hip report came back as borderline dysplasia. I am asking for honest opinions from other breeders on this forum in regards to whether or not the breeder of the dog in question should feel obligated to replace this puppy or refund my money. Do I have any recourse here or should I just walk away and let by gones be by gones.

Re: Question about replacement puppy?

I guess the easy answer would be, "what does your contract say?"

But my question to you is what was the rush to breed her???

Re: Question about replacement puppy?

No, I wouldn't feel that the breeder would owe you anything. Hopefully you kept a pup from that litter and she'll turn out for you. There are environmental modifiers to dysplasia development, one of which is excessive weight so it could be said that by breeding her, and puttng 15-20# extra on her (in puppy weight) did the damage right there.

Re: Question about replacement puppy?

Most breeders won't replace or refund if pup was bred prior to full clearances at 2 years old. Pregnancy in one so young could have caused it to go from Fair to mild.

Re: Question about replacement puppy?

1. It's never 100% when you do prelims. I would have waited personally. It's just one of those risks you take, and you got stuck.

2. I don't think the breeder owes you anything. My contract states no refunds/replacement unless the HD is severe and compromising quality of life. As a pet, there are many dogs with HD that have active normal lives.

Yes, you paid more for a show/breeding prospect, but honestly I don't know many that actually do that, and I would never have bought a dog like that. Read your contract, if there is any option for you, then it should be written out. Then address the issue with your breeder. If its not detailed in the contract, let them know, but don't expect anything in return.

Re: Question about replacement puppy?

I had a bitch that passed her prelims with a good at 20 months. I waited and did finals she came back dysplastic. I placed her. I feel so relieved I didn't breed her at 20 months. As a breeder I can put my head down at night and say I did the right thing. People are in such a hurry to breed their bitches, why couldn't you wait 6 months. Now you have the worry of puppy owners coming back to you having problems with their pups. Oh, yes you can blame it on environment,overweight,too much exercise, it came from the sire's side, doesn't run in my lines. Excuses, excuses, anything to let yourself off the hook.
I do think the breeder of your bitch should give you some compensation. But, if you don't have a written, signed contract with both parties, then you have a problem. It's very simple. Due all health clearances that pertain to your breed of dog. If all goes well you breed your bitch. Discuss all health clearances and why you do them with puppy buyers and if your honest and reputable nothing will come back and bite you in the a**.

Re: Question about replacement puppy?

You might try re-doing the x-rays and re-submitting. Did the same vet do them both? What did he think when he compared them? Did you call OFA and ask what the (3) vets reported on them - if the 3 vets were all different - maybe the x-rays can be done with better results

Re: Question about replacement puppy?

Lab Breeder I had my girl xrayed 3 times. No go.

Re: Question about replacement puppy?

Perplexed
I am in a bit of a conundrum. A while back I bought a female puppy from a breeder. I paid extra to get full registration on this puppy as a show/breeding prospect. I had OFA prelims done at 18 months. The hips came back as fair. I took the chance and bred her on the prelims. I raised and sold a nice healthy litter of puppies from her. When I had her finals done the hip report came back as borderline dysplasia. I am asking for honest opinions from other breeders on this forum in regards to whether or not the breeder of the dog in question should feel obligated to replace this puppy or refund my money. Do I have any recourse here or should I just walk away and let by gones be by gones.


If I was the breeder I would not feel obligated to refund you as you went ahead and bred the bitch. Once a bitch is bred, I do not warranty hips.

Re: Question about replacement puppy?

Perplexed
I am in a bit of a conundrum. A while back I bought a female puppy from a breeder. I paid extra to get full registration on this puppy as a show/breeding prospect. I had OFA prelims done at 18 months. The hips came back as fair. I took the chance and bred her on the prelims. I raised and sold a nice healthy litter of puppies from her. When I had her finals done the hip report came back as borderline dysplasia. I am asking for honest opinions from other breeders on this forum in regards to whether or not the breeder of the dog in question should feel obligated to replace this puppy or refund my money. Do I have any recourse here or should I just walk away and let by gones be by gones.


No way would I, as a responsible breeder, just sell you a dog to breed, let alone on prelims at 18 months! Most breeders will sell on limited and remove that restriction once the bitch turns 2 and *passes* the x-rays. Aside from that, you did breed her, you raised and *sold* a healthy litter of pups. I would say you got your money's back.

Re: Question about replacement puppy?

Why would you breed such a young bitch and on prelims? What was the rush? No bitch is mentally ready to raise a litter at 18 months of age. Not to mention not having finals from OFA to be sure she is worthy of breeding.

Shame on you and hoping your pup buyers don't come back with issues with their pups. For the sake of the buyers and the pups. For you..... you will have to deal with that.

Live and learn.... I certainly hope you do.

Re: Question about replacement puppy?

10 years ago I bought my first two girls and was told the hips and elbows wouldn't change from pre-lims good to a different rating at two years. They didn't change. The breeder that sold me the girls was an old time breeder. Her guarantee was based on finals at two years. I didn't know any different and maybe the OP was just so informed.

Now I wait until at least two years and always longer because of heat cycles or trying to finish a dog. I have waited until four years on one girl and did her finals before breeding her. Her finals were a good. maybe it's the lines I have run on, I don't know.

There isn't any reason to put this OP down for breeding early if you don't know the situation or the mentor she has listened to. To the OP, you bred the dog and were compensated for the cost of your girl through the sale of the puppies.

The contract from a reputable breeder should be on limited and a guarantee to full on completion of all testing with only the added cost of the AKC change and maybe a fee for your time. ( I have sold on full without this clause only to have the poor baby bred very young.) I have added that if the dog is bred before final OFA's, Cerf and a title of at least CD that I will sue them in my County and State. If they want to show in conformation they can wait until they are two or do a co-own with me…period! I also offer a full money back guarantee on all of my puppies. I have refunded on four puppies over the years.

Re: Question about replacement puppy?

I am having a hard time trying to figure out why you think the breeder owes you anything. You bred the bitch, she had a litter, and I assume you sold the puppies. That should give you more than adequate compensation. Quit trying to squeeze $$$s out of the breeder.

Re: Question about replacement puppy?

You already made your money back plus with the litter you had. Had you waited to breed her until she passed or in this case, didn't pass OFA, yes, you would be owed a replacement if that was the breeder's guarantee. Since you didn't wait, and bred her anyway, the breeder should be under no obligation to replace her. Most guarantees do say void if the dog is bred (male or female)...

Just my 2 cents worth. I'm sorry your dog didn't pass, but more sorry you felt you should breed her so young on an iffy pre-lim. What is YOUR guarantee to the people who purchased puppies out of your dysplastic bitch? Just curious...

Regards,

Leslee Pope
Huntcrest

Re: Question about replacement puppy?

Leslee Pope
You already made your money back plus with the litter you had. Had you waited to breed her until she passed or in this case, didn't pass OFA, yes, you would be owed a replacement if that was the breeder's guarantee. Since you didn't wait, and bred her anyway, the breeder should be under no obligation to replace her. Most guarantees do say void if the dog is bred (male or female)...

Just my 2 cents worth. I'm sorry your dog didn't pass, but more sorry you felt you should breed her so young on an iffy pre-lim. What is YOUR guarantee to the people who purchased puppies out of your dysplastic bitch? Just curious...

Regards,

Leslee Pope
Huntcrest


I haven't ever bred before finals and normally don't do prelims. I hear time and time again about breeding at 21 months and don't understand the hurry or reason but it isn't uncommon, too bad really. Let the girl or boy grow up.

I like your style Leslee. Say it the way it is.

I like your questions, they make perfect sense as always.

Re: Question about replacement puppy?

Perplexed
I am in a bit of a conundrum. A while back I bought a female puppy from a breeder. I paid extra to get full registration on this puppy as a show/breeding prospect. I had OFA prelims done at 18 months. The hips came back as fair. I took the chance and bred her on the prelims. I raised and sold a nice healthy litter of puppies from her. When I had her finals done the hip report came back as borderline dysplasia. I am asking for honest opinions from other breeders on this forum in regards to whether or not the breeder of the dog in question should feel obligated to replace this puppy or refund my money. Do I have any recourse here or should I just walk away and let by gones be by gones.


You got your money from the litter you sold. For me it would be a big NO, your guarantee is over once you breed the dog/bitch.

Re: Question about replacement puppy?

Perplexed
I am in a bit of a conundrum. A while back I bought a female puppy from a breeder. I paid extra to get full registration on this puppy as a show/breeding prospect. I had OFA prelims done at 18 months. The hips came back as fair. I took the chance and bred her on the prelims. I raised and sold a nice healthy litter of puppies from her. When I had her finals done the hip report came back as borderline dysplasia. I am asking for honest opinions from other breeders on this forum in regards to whether or not the breeder of the dog in question should feel obligated to replace this puppy or refund my money. Do I have any recourse here or should I just walk away and let by gones be by gones.


I agree with others about the fact that I think you bred her too young, I don't know what the rush was to be honest but if u felt you had to breed her so early you should have gone and done penn hip instead as those don't change. Did you do finals during or close to her heat cycle or too close after the pups were born?

On the other hand as far as OFA goes I have totally lost faith in them, my old time vets have told me they are calling xrays no pass that they havent' a clue why. These vets used to be able to make the call on what the grading or pass/fail was but they now say they won't even try to guess what OFA will come back with. Would I breed a bitch that didn't clear? If my old time reliable vet thought the dog was fine then yes I would as all my lines are 5 generations of OFA's with known siblings that also passed.

As far as does the breeder of your bitch owe you anything in my opinion i'm going to say no she doesn't unless she told you she would if the dog didn't pass finals.

Re: Question about replacement puppy?

That's interesting since this newest panel of OFA vets seem easier, imo. I'd not have guessed that my (now 3 yo) would make Excellent when her cousins w/ even prettier xrays only came back Good. And I'm hearing of a LOT of excellents across breeds this past year. If anything, I think they are grading easier right now. knock on wood...

Re: Question about replacement puppy?

windycanyon
That's interesting since this newest panel of OFA vets seem easier, imo. I'd not have guessed that my (now 3 yo) would make Excellent when her cousins w/ even prettier xrays only came back Good. And I'm hearing of a LOT of excellents across breeds this past year. If anything, I think they are grading easier right now. knock on wood...


That's good to hear, last one I had done was over 3 years ago, but i've heard of others who's vet thought the dog would pass (over 3 years ago) and came back failed, been breeding and showing myself for 33 years

Re: Question about replacement puppy?

NO, you should get nothing back. Gosh, you are the one who bred her so young. Sorry she did not pass but the minute you bred her she was all yours.