So how soon is too soon? We know it is not the same as Cinderella whose coach turns into a pumpkin at midnight. Two years is not a magic number. In Europe, clearances at one year are OK. But here, we live by a different standard.

So let's count down. If you got good prelims at 23 months, would that be acceptable? 22 months? 21 months? 20 months?

Boys on prelims are bred to all the time. Not 100% sure but believe OFA stated that if a dog prelims excellent (after 12 months) it had a 95-98% chance of passing at two years old. Think with females it's not just the final OFA's but the mental maturity of the bitch to take care of a litter.

Correct quote of OFA. Also for a male to breed, it doesn't take a lot out of them. For a female there are so many multisystem changes along with all the hormone issues. In the past for humans before prenatal vitamins were available, they said "for every pregnancy, a tooth" the increased calcium depletion from the system meant cavities for mom. Today for dogs, we have excellent nutrition, but still so much is affected with pregnancy and nursing and mom's growth may not be totally complete prior to 2 years old. Why put the physiological stress on such a young girl?

Personally, one of my boy's prelim hips were excellent, he was performance titled, he had terrific disposition and conformation. I knew his lines and knew he'd complement my girls, so he was used twice on prelims. NEVER would I breed a female on prelims.

Question, how many vets are looking at xrays in Europe? Though I may be okay w/ hips, I would not feel comfortable on breeding on prelim'd elbows. And then there are other matters like eyes, etc.

There is always the option also to do Penn Hip, that does not change.... Being that dogs age 7 times faster than humans and have such a short life span 1 1/2 is not really too young to start breeding them, (not that I myself have ever bred my girls that young to date, mine are lucky to have a first litter by 4) and then there are countries that clear the dogs at a year so who is right and who is wrong? I have also seen dogs that OFA has deemed a fail and some of them live to ripe old ages and never limp or have a orthopedic problem in their life so what does that tell us? Sure good for confusing the dickens out of us.

So why do I or we continue to hear of boys that prelim excellent with no OFA documentation and end up being pulled after age 2 due to failed Finals eh?

I agree about mental maturity in the bitch foe whelping and caring for a litter. The older the better. I don't meet 7 or 8 for a 1st litter, not under 2 but it is my opinion. Months if not 1 year over 2, closer to 3 is great. You still have time for 3 litters if not 4. Ask Hutch his opinion.

Prelims on studs are one thing.... he does not have to go thru the hormones, carry the litter, whelp the pups and raise that litter

For bitches, wait for that sweet girl to be mature enough mentally and emotionally to raise her litter.

Breeding a bitch on prelims (at 18 months or even 20, 21, etc) is not something I would ever do.

My girls are at least 24 months or older - depending on their mental maturity (and of course Final OFAs and all others - Optigen/PRA, heart echo, etc)

A dog or bitch should not be bred until everything about them is fully matured..

So hips are a big deal, but not the be all end all determining factor saying you have a good representation of the breed.

other then one's wanting to see what the animal will produce for pups... wait. What is the hurry. There are too many dogs out there that do not look like Labradors anymore. One reason is not waiting to see how boys end up after testosterone has changed their bone structure. And of course the new Mom is only a baby if you do not wait until at least 18 months.

A post was recently made about a lecture given by Mary Roslin-Williams... take the time to listen to her. She goes on and on about structure, yet always emphasizes a Labrador should look like a Labrador. How in the world do you know how a boy is going to wind up if you breed him at 1 year old? Let the girls be bred when they are fully matured.

Do they look like Labradors...... if not please do not breed them. Copies of Mary Roslin-Williams books can be found if you look hard enough. Get one.

Please. Have had that CD for at least 10 years. Bitch is having her first season at 23 months of age.