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Wheel of Fortune

Apr 4, 2014 - 12:24PM

Re: length of leg

Blame the judge?

I was at a show not too long ago where someone who is "a new judge" was in the ring and did not even have the collar up on her dog properly for stacking or movement in the ring. The dog looked terrible because of it but still placed over others.

Hello...................

Politics people....... Get used to it.

No way... politics in Dog Showing ? I never would have thunk it.

Long time breeder

Apr 2, 2014 - 4:14PM

Re: length of leg

As "Observer" pointed out it is more about depth of body than short legs in most cases, now when it gets to be extreme that is not a pretty picture at all, however show labs should not have shallow chests nor lots of leg under them, that would be a field type lab which for me is not my cup of tea at all. This is not a square breed, they are longer in body than they are tall, I also think weight on a lot of dogs contribute to making them look shorter legged too so people take that excess weight off your dogs and you may just portray a different picture. You say these judges are rewarding these supposed short legged dogs, consider this, the judge has to look at all the dogs in the ring and if the one with shorter legs is the best "put together dog" while the others may have more leg that is the one the judge will give the win to.... so it could be the other dogs in the ring are just not up to snuff

Apr 2nd, 2014 - 4:14 PM

Wondering

Apr 2, 2014 - 5:05PM

Re: length of leg

Long time breeder, so you are telling me that at a large specialty that the only good dog is the one short on leg. I do not think so. And Labs at supposed to be equal or slightly longer then tall. And it plainly states that length of leg from elbow to ground is the same distances as withers to elbow.
I have seen these dogs in person and they are short on leg.

Long time breeder

Apr 2, 2014 - 5:44PM

Re: length of leg

Wondering

Well as they say beauty is in the eyes of the beholder and to the judge that dog he/she puts up is the best one in his/her eyes.
As to the standard, the only true standard is the english one, our "New and Improved American Standard" is not correct and I will never breed to it, that standard was changed illegally by field people

Apr 2nd, 2014 - 5:44 PM

JMO

Apr 2, 2014 - 6:02PM

Re: length of leg

long time breeder one of the most serious faults is unbalance in a dog. A dog with legs that are not equal in length to the depth of body from withers to elbow is an incorrect dog no matter how pretty it is otherwise. I have been watching this become more and more common in recent years. The depth of chest can be deceiving and coat length can cause your eye to stray from the true point to measure the elbow. There are some very lovely dogs out there that are short on leg. Those dogs should not be rewarded though because it is a serious fault. Until you are the one in the ring judging it is hard to know what issues the judge is finding during an exam or gaiting. You must place priority on faults and failings and balance is number two behind type for me.

breeder

Apr 2, 2014 - 6:33PM

Re: length of leg

Short legged, long in body and poor upper arms seem to have thrown the outline off by a lot. Hopefully, it's cyclical and eventually the outline will right itself.

Long time breeder

Apr 2, 2014 - 7:26PM

Re: length of leg

JMO

Shorter legs in your opinion is the most serious fault, don't say it is the most serious for all, i'd take a shorter legged dog over a dog with a poor front anyday (not that I like shorter legged dogs), it's all subjective and each breeder has their pet peeves what they will live with or can't so we all need to agree to disagree and accept the judges opinion

Apr 2nd, 2014 - 7:26 PM

Apr 3, 2014 - 3:16PM

Re: length of leg

This again??? Same old, same old. Can we talk about something new on this forum?
Problem lies in what judges reward, period. Talk to your judges. Don't come on here and whine. Is it because your dogs has leg and does not win? Then find judges to show to that reward length of leg and movement!

If you mentor young/new breeders…EDUCATE. And go breed dogs with LEG!!!

I think this forum should be named the Wiscoy Whiners….lololol

Lighten up…and trust some of us judges to do our job to make sure stumpy dogs do not get rewarded

Long time breeder

Apr 4, 2014 - 8:38PM

Re: length of leg

Novice Breeder

To "Long Time Breeder": I am a Novice Breeder. I bred my first litter 8½ years ago. I have read the many books recommended by other long-time breeders, listened to Mary Roslin Williams' CD, and attended many, many Specialties in the 12 years I have been involved in Labradors. I have attended countless Puppy Evaluations, I put my hands on as many dogs as I can when the opportunity presents itself, I have even judged a Match for a local LRC breed club. The fact that my best puppy and best adult both completed their Championships tells me that I have a decent understanding of "what a truely (sic) good Labrador is".

I study my LQ every month and look at the photos and, quite frankly, am sometimes surprised at the poor quality of the photo, and sometimes the poor quality of the dog's conformation in the ads. I have a dog right now that is lovely, but lacks front angulation. I look at the photos of the Champions in the LQ and Specialty Winners and see so many straight fronts and think, "Well, if that dog could finish a CH, perhaps there is hope for my dog."

Here's the challenge for me. When I attend these Specialties and I see the larger, heavy-boned, heavy-coated Labradors bred by the well-known, respected breeders being put up by well-known, respected breeder-judges, I question my opinion and think, "Gee, I must have it wrong because that dog, while it is pretty to look at, doesn't represent the breed standard (AKC or FCI)." How are we Novice Breeders, aka "Newbies", supposed to learn what a proper (i.e. representing the breed standard) Labrador looks like if we have so many poor examples winning?

The Labradors I have bred tend to be more moderate than overdone. I have had a male go Specialty RWD and a female go Specialty RWB (both are champion-pointed) and I appreciate and respect those judges who had the courage and confidence to go with an unknown, but I still speak on behalf of the other Novice/Newbies like myself who are looking for mentors who value and truly care about the future of the breed as it was intended.

So, to your point. Perhaps we don't know "what a truely good labrador is", but how are we supposed to learn if noone will take the time to teach us?

Quoting "Long Time Breeder": "if you ask me most on this board are novice breeders that still don't know what a truely good labrador is."

Might be your studying the wrong labs, try going back to the labs in the 80's and nineties (and make friends with the breeders of that time period who have remained true to the breed) and study those instead of these new overdone, overcoated labs I see too much of, makes me cringe to see these monsters that are as big as rotties and some even have more bone and heads than rotts!! That is NOT correct for a labrador at all. There are still a few left that haven't gone with the fad of the new overdone labs, one in particular comes to mind and she has remained successful all these years and has the most awesome dogs and that is the Tabatha kennels, go take a hard look at her dogs and learn.

Apr 4th, 2014 - 8:38 PM

breeder

Apr 5, 2014 - 12:36PM

Re: length of leg

so true, Tabatha is such a wonderful example. And the icing on the cake is to see her in the ring with her dogs and the repoire she has...truly lovely

Long time breeder

Apr 5, 2014 - 2:07PM

Re: length of leg

breeder

so true, Tabatha is such a wonderful example. And the icing on the cake is to see her in the ring with her dogs and the repoire she has...truly lovely

Yep she is awesome, a real treat to see her with her dogs and how they all obey and adore her

Apr 5th, 2014 - 2:07 PM

agree

Apr 5, 2014 - 2:45PM

Re: length of leg

Long time breeder

breeder

so true, Tabatha is such a wonderful example. And the icing on the cake is to see her in the ring with her dogs and the repoire she has...truly lovely

Yep she is awesome, a real treat to see her with her dogs and how they all obey and adore her

Just chiming in to agree. She has 'the eye' for her ideal labrador and has stuck to it all these years. She holds her girls to a very high standard, taking the concept of 'breeding quality' to the highest level, and is absolutely ruthless about cutting those from her breeding program who don't meet her standards. It isn't just looks: temperament and ability to work are equally important. Even if someone doesn't care for her type (I very much do), one has got to admire her commitment to the breed. Even better is how she will take the time to share her wise words with a novice, because she loves the breed more deeply than anyone else I've ever met.

Romeo lover

Apr 7, 2014 - 10:56PM

Romeo the great.................................................

I think everyone makes great points on the subject, but your all missing the point! Romeo is the best dog in the world with proper everything.... Including legs................................................ He's the only dog all others should be compared too............. LOL...............

Romeo Stalker

Apr 8, 2014 - 12:27AM

Re: Romeo the great.................................................

Romeo lover

Hey.. I saw him first... he's mine.All mine.

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