Hi,
I have a 15 month old labradoodle who has had a couple of episodes that really look like EIC. From what I have read here and elsewhere her episodes are classic EIC. The problem is that she was tested as a puppy and tested clear or negative.
She appears well and healthy when checked by the vet. What else could this be?
There is something on the University of Minnesota website that calls out a different type of seizure that they are beginning to think about for a study:
Atypical Collapse in Labrador Retrievers
An episodic movement disorder that may be a form of atypical seizure has been recognized in Labrador Retrievers. This disorder has been called atypical epilepsy, paroxysmal dyskinesia, episodic dyskinesia and Chinook seizures. Affected dogs are normal between the episodes which occur suddenly, without warning. Some affected Labradors simply stagger and look dazed for a few seconds and then recover, without ever falling over. Others have a 2 to 5 minute episode (occasionally longer) where they appear anxious and are unable to stand erect and walk, experiencing either uncontrollable trembling or muscular rigidity as they attempt to crawl. Affected dogs maintain consciousness and can obey commands during the episodes. Some Labrador Retrievers have exercise or excitement as an apparent trigger for their episodes, prompting consideration of disorders that cause exercise intolerance (especially cardiac arrhythmias, low blood sugar or EIC). Some dogs with this disorder will develop more classical generalized tonic-clonic seizures later in life where they lose consciousness and paddle their limbs.
This syndrome has not yet been well characterized but we are suspicious that this is an inherited form of epilepsy in Labrador Retrievers. If your Labrador Retriever has had 2 or more episodes that fit this description we would like your help as we try to describe the syndrome and search for the genetic cause. Please take the time to fill out the questionnaire and send us a DNA sample and pedigree from your affected dog. If you have a video of your dog having an episode we would like to have the opportunity to view that as well.
Thanks,
Toni
www.retrieverlife.com
Good grief I can not wait for this EIC hysteria to go away. Oh we must have a EIC tested stud dog but we only check our bitches heart with an ascultation???? Give me a break. This EIC hysteria is so out of control. It is the ONLY thing some breeders are using to determine what stud dog to use to IMPROVE their breeding lines????!!! There is more to improving a breeding line and a bitch than with a EIC test! A test that many do not believe in, a fairly new test out on the market that some are treating like the gospel. Breeding paper to paper with hysteria over EIC. Where was this hysteria, collapsing and EIC 5,10,20,30 years ago in our breed?
I have heard of negatives & carriers collapsing but not mine as I have nothing but clear. I can't prove it, so I test. It's another *tool* as many of you call clearances. I put my *tools* in the order of importance. Allergies, yes Allergies!, Epilepsy and TVD are at the tippy-top of my health list. Ever see a severely allergic dog rip itself to pieces? Same reply as mine about EIC as I haven't ever seen a collapsing dog of my own or any of the dozens of breeders I know. You don't want Allergies in your kennel and I sure hope you wouldn't want Epilepsy or TVD either. The last two have to include what some call *pedigree research*. Done properly, Lab breeders can give themselves a good edge on not winding up with those 2 until testing is available. Until then, echo dopplar testing for TVD and staying away from lines we know have produced a good amount of either disease is best.
I wish the University of Minnesota would do further studies or testing into the negatives and carriers collapsing in our breed & other breeds. Why do many dogs that are hard worked, in brutal heat; test affected yet never collapse in an entire lifetime? I don't know and the same for the reverse. There has to be something the researchers haven't located yet. It might be small so I'll test but EIC is not at the top of my *tool* list. The other diseases can be far worse and the tools for them should be used as much as the EIC tool if not more so. Remember, I did not say *throw all of the babies out with the bathwater*. I also don't understand why some breeders will line-breed on known producers of certain diseases. Just bcuz they make beautiful puppies sick or not and they only want dogs that will have a better chance of winning? If so, that's incredibly sad.
~jmho.
What all this makes me wonder is why anyone who cares about their dogs work them in the heat of summer to start with? Anyone with half a brain knows that dogs can go down from heat stroke, or what ever in the heat. Dogs on their own usually will lay in the shade on a hot day. Some won't and they have to be kept in a cool area for their own safety in that kind of weather. I know clubs hold HRT tests in the summer, and people who are driven for the title will train their dogs in the heat of the day, but what does that say about them? I think it says that they care about their egos and not the welfare of their dogs. You all need to put your money where your mouth is and take better care of your dogs to avoid the situations from happening to start with. That is the real issue in my opinion.
Correct me if I am wrong- the primary 200 blood samples used by UofM were collected by Dr. Sue Taylor primarily from the Saskatoon Retriever Club. From these samples they determined the link to the mutated gene on top of a gene. Since then 10,000 labs have been tested most people in the begining breeders were sending in because they thought their dog had collapsed- still only 2-5% affected. I read a lot of hunting dog forums and there seems to be a testing frenzy for everything when PRA wasn't even being tested for in the past 10 years. They test every pup from every litter. Seems over kill. And yes even in the articles from UofM they mention clear & carrier collapsing but comment it must be something other than EIC
Two of the 200 initially used to develop the test were my dogs - from English show lines. One was affected (the one that collapsed) and the littermate was a carrier. There were several other "show" dogs in the initial group because they had a typical collapse. This gene mutation was not found in an isolated familial group. The samples came from a variety of lines. What the collapsing ones had in common was the mutation. The more you know about this condition, the more you will appreciate that we now have a gene test to help us breed dogs that will never have EIC.
I appreciate these types of responses because articles published create doubt: exerpts: Uof Saskatchawan
"It was Canada Day, July 1, 2007, when Dr. Sue Taylor picked up her phone and heard the words that every scientist involved in genetic research dreams about hearing: "We found it." It was the genetic mutation responsible for exercise-induced collapse (EIC) in Labrador retrievers — a neuromuscular syndrome that the WCVM specialist in small animal internal medicine had been investigating for 12 years."
"
After years of working with blood samples collected by Taylor from more than 200 Labrador retrievers, the U of M research team identified a mutant form of the dynamin 1 gene as highly associated with EIC in the breed. The discovery, which led to an article in Nature Genetics, was the first naturally occurring mutation of the gene identified in any mammal."
"Taylor's fellow members at the Saskatoon Retriever Club voluntarily allowed her to test their dogs. "I don't think someone outside of the sport would have gained the trust of some of the people that were contacting me," explains Taylor, who also went further afield in her search for affected dogs. She wrote lay articles about the collapse syndrome research for field trial publications and garnered help from dog owners throughout North America."
One more thing- reason for doubting so many on identifying a collapse by EIC:
"This syndrome of Labrador Retriever Exercise-Induced Collapse is distinct from other hereditary muscle disorders which have been identified in Labrador Retrievers including:
1. Hereditary Labrador Retriever Myopathy (also called type II fiber deficiency or muscular dystrophy)- a condition where puppies (6 weeks to 6 months of age)appear stunted and develop progressive muscle weakness, exercise intolerance, an abnormal gait and muscle atrophy. Signs stabilize in most dogs by 12 to 18 months of age. While the precise undelying defect is still not known, the condition is easily diagnosed by evaluation of muscle biopsy specimens. An autosomal recessive mode of inheritance has been documented in dogs with Type II fiber deficiency.
2. Dystrophin Deficient Muscular dystrophy -a rare condition affecting very young male dogs, causing severe weakness, progressive muscle atrophy and greatly elevated muscle enzymes (CK). Diagnosis is by detection of the elvated CK in a young pup, identification of pathologic changes in a muscle biopsy characteristic of dystrophy and demonstrating the absence of muscle membrane dystrophin in the muscle biopsy specimens.
3. Familial Reflex Myoclonus - a rare condition where very young puppies (3 to 6 weeks of age) develop intermittent muscle spasms and then progressive muscle stiffness. Littermates often affected.
4. Malignant hyperthermia - a rare, hereditary,life-threatening condition where excessive muscle contraction and increased body temperature can be triggered by general anesthesia with certain drugs or by stress and exercise (also called canine stress syndrome). Diagnosis is by rigorous laboratory testing of muscle biopsies or (more recently) through genetic testing.
The exercise-induced collapse syndrome we are describing can only be diagnosed by ruling out all of these other muscle disorders and by observing characteristic clinical features, history and laboratory test results in affected dogs.
Any dog with exercise intolerance should always have a complete veterinary evaluation to rule-out joint diseases, heart rhythm disturbances, respiratory problems,low blood sugar and other systemic disorders.
If the syndrome of Labrador Retriever Exercise-Induced Collapse is suspected,then further metabolic and muscle testing should be performed by a veterinarian in collaboration with a laboratory possessing expertise in metabolic disorders of canine muscle.
Investigators at the Western College of Veterinary Medicine (Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada), in collaboration with Dr. Shelton at the Comparative Neuromuscular Laboratory(University of California, San Diego), are involved in a research program to further investigate and characterize Exercise-Induced Collapse in Labrador Retrievers. We hope to determine the underlying defect in affected dogs and make strides towards accurate diagnosis, treatment and prevention."
A lot of other items cause collapse- yes the test helps but it is obvious from posters on this forum they want crucify anyone who breeds & affected or carrier- even if it is properly to a clear.
Just recently one of the young dogs I bred collapsed when she became very excited about going out to run with some older dogs on a crisp fall day. I've seen
EIC and this looked exactly like EIC, including the recovery. She both tested negative and was negative by parentage. She was scared but alert during the experience with no post seizure-like symptoms. The episode last only a few minutes and when the episode was over, she ran off with the other dogs. If I hadn't seen it with my own eyes, I would never have believed it.
Now the hysteria is all about HNPK , geez I think we are going to test this breed out of existence
Genetic tests are tools that enable breeders to make educated breeding decisions and possibly lower the risk of serious health issues (there are no guarantees). Breeding decisions are personal to each individual breeder depending on their particular goals, pedigrees and risk acceptance levels. No one is forcing anyone to do particular tests and in the same vein, it is no one else’s business if a particular breeder wishes to place importance on a particular issue that may not be as much of an issue to others. The only person who has a right to make those decisions is the person who is responsible for the particular dogs and their offspring. I think people feel pressured to do various clearances because others are doing them or are requiring them for breeding, but that is really a personal problem that must be resolved for oneself. In addition, no stud dog or brood bitch is owed breedings – they happen because the people responsible for the outcome agree it is the best mating possible. If one breeder considers HNPK to be a non-event, don’t test for it. But then don’t expect anyone to breed their HNPK carriers or affecteds to your dog; other people have just as much right to breed around the issue. It really does not matter if you personally feel it is inconsequential – it is not your call. The same goes for criticizing people for only breeding clears to clears. Outsiders have no idea what another’s breeding plans might be. For example, all but one of my dogs is Optigen clear. I could breed my clear bitch to a PRA carrier but I choose not to because I want to breed back to my own PRA carrier in the next generation and need a clear bitch to do so. There is no shortage of nice clear dogs so I do not have to risk losing type for a clearance. Others have different reasons.
Personally, I think we should be grateful we have these tests so we can make informed decisions – there are enough uncertainties and issues for which there are no tests that preventing the issues we know we can prevent increases the odds that we will produce functional, healthy, typical Labradors. I would be far more concerned about breeding for color or breeding on no clearances/prelims/known health issues than I would about people who are making an effort to breed non-affected dogs.
I sold an affected puppy when the test just came out. My female was a carrier, the stud owner had just sent blood to U of Min, but was sure from the pedigree that the stud was clear. The male's EIC test came back as carrier. We tested all the pups, 1 was affected. He went to a previous pup family which I had a good relationship with. They had told me if I ever had a 'handicapped' pup, they would love to take it. Years later they gave me an update. Pup would go lie down under shade on walks, not be able to move legs for 20 minutes. They had water along, always gave pup cool water. Pup would eventually get up and continue on. They live in Chicago. This only happened in the summer but would happen almost every week or so. They only walked pup where shade was available. They'd patiently wait while pup 'rested' but pup could not get up if it wanted to. It wouldn't try or cry like in the EIC videos, just rest. It felt it coming on. This lovely family has loved and cared for this affected pup for many years now.
Hello,
I know this is an old string, but I'm convinced my 2.5 year old has EIC but is clear genetically. After 10 minutes of ball fetch in 65 F sunny not humid weather, (granted this is warm for what we are used to in Anchorage) he has lost coordination in back legs, stumbled, fell over, etc. I have seen it twice and avoid by watching closely for symptoms, but twice friends have reported it happening on their watch. He recovers quickly (not heat stroke) and is aware and listens to commands during the episode (not epilepsy). He doesn't seem worried, just tired, panting, and happy because he is doing his favorite thing, fetch. Anyway, wanted to throw my two cents in.