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Maria, I appreciate your support. I have heard from
many experienced and educated breeders who have
much to share with all of us but who are afraid
to post on this forum where even the mildest post
can meet with rebuke from cyberbullies who hide behind
anonymity. So I also appreciate your courage at this
time in writing. It is people like who can actually
change the face of this forum into a place where
intelligent dialogue can occur, which is my fervent
hope because we all need this kind of input.

Just Google her name she is all over the Internet.

Wow, this is too deep for me. I'm like my dogs K.I.S.S, and not afraid to admit it Funny enough, I know for a fact that one of the top breeders in the U.S. is the very same way. This breeder would chuckle at all of this. But hey, if it works for you, well than more power to you That is what makes the world go round after all. Good topic to boot!

1) I am sure there is a small minority of people here who use the option of being anonymous to cyber-bully. I would think that most don't want to be bullied but to call them afraid is a bit strong. Others, due to their status in the Labrador world or their level of education or accomplishment elsewhere, don't want people to be intimidated by what they write. Some are just shy. But this subject has been beaten to death.

2) I questioned your perceived intellectual authority in a rather benign way and you have been trying to pick a fight with me ever since. You just taunted me like a school girl. I did take the bait earlier and think less of myself for that. But, I think it is pretty clear that a little more self-analysis on your part regarding bullying may be warranted. Just because you choose to use your name does not give you license to be rude to people.

3) People who disagree with something you write are not necessarily uneducated or lacking intelligence. Being able to explain a complicated scenerio using a simple model without oversimplifying, takes a very high level of understanding. Throughout this thread you have missed quite good teachable moments to bridge the simple model of the inbreeding vs. linebreeding tradional vocabulary with a more complex mathematical model. Additionally, you have contradicted yourself regarding inbreeding vs. outcrossing and the value of knowing the lines and the art of making related decisions. I believe in some parts of this thread you have contributed wonderful ideas and in others you have been the one to dumb it down.

4) This thread is supposed to be about genetics. If you think I am being a bully simply ignore me. If she thinks I am being inappropriate, Jill will censure me. Take a parting shot at me if you will, I promise not to respond to you or anyone else. In fact, to avoid the temptation, I won't even return to this thread (only I will know if I can really pull that off. void(0);
void(0);) My hope is that if this thread on linebreeding (or inbreeding) has ended, others like it will appear soon. I will gladly participate and I promise to try my best to stay courteous and focused on the subject at hand.

Sadly, cyber bully does come to mind. Kate appears to be collecting data for some purpose. Hopefully it is for a better understanding of the Labrador, and not for some political or materialistic agenda. Perhaps she will share her findings at some point.

Kate, since you initially announced yourself as "I am the voice of reason," we would hope that you would avoid a re-emergance of a sort of quasi-Enlightened Absolutisim, and perhaps re-investigate John Locke's "Essay on Human Understanding" (1690)in which he theorizes (with his metaphor of the human mind as "tabla rasa" or a blank slate/knowing nothing at birth)that human knowledge is derived from the senses of perception. Thus, if in Locke's view,the external environment influences everything, and if we, like Locke are optimistic, and consider that human conduct and behaviour is highly prefectable, we could hope to introduce to you, Kate, as well as others inclined to cyber bullying, an element of social decorum into the discussions on this very useful Labrador weblist.

And it has been quoted elsewhere that the sometimes melacholy Mr. Cowper has written that "differ'ng judgements serve but to dictate/ That trueth lies somewhere, if we knew but where" One would hope that an interpretation of this fragment by Cowper might be that the truth may be discovered in the labor of one's own journey to that understanding of truth, not in rhetorical dialectics gleaned from secondary sources and shouted as the absolute truth from the rooftops.

Peace to you all.