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Purchased a Yellow Lab from Gordon Sousa in 1993

Hi everyone! I had a yellow Lab, Bruce from 1993-2007 from a breeder named Gordon Sousa. Bruce's parents were Breezy's Vanderbilt and Saltwater's Hot Rescue Ranger and his grandfather (and apparently also his great-grandfather) was Sandylands Rip Van Winkle (aka Vanny). We were looking through Bruce's paperwork to contact Mr. Sousa to see if we could get another dog from Bruce's pedigree because he was such a fantastic dog. But apparently Mr Sousa is not only impossible to find, but famous for his breeding, which at the time we didn't know - we'd been sent to him by a friend of the family that bred Afghan Hounds. We had no idea how well-bred our dog had been! So we'd love to talk to someone who breeds dogs from Bruce's pedigree. Please contact Melissa Millward at melissa@corbyhall.com. I live in Randolph, NJ. THANKS!

Re: Purchased a Yellow Lab from Gordon Sousa in 1993

He's out of Labradors a long time.

Re: Re: Purchased a Yellow Lab from Gordon Sousa in 1993

I saw him at the Potomac this year exhibiting...

Re: Purchased a Yellow Lab from Gordon Sousa in 1993

Really.He didn't exhibit. He visited. He has no labbies of his own anymore.

Re: Re: Purchased a Yellow Lab from Gordon Sousa in 1993

Could I have mistaken someone else for him-I have a pic of who I thought was Gordon in the ring with a black girl on the end of a lead....I also could have sworn I saw him earlier than Potomac at a match show in NJ as well....could he just be handling?

Re: Purchased a Yellow Lab from Gordon Sousa in 1993

I have to see this.

Who cares that he handled at a match? Try to call him. Lots of his clients did and he never returned a call. Most of us know why.

Re: Re: Purchased a Yellow Lab from Gordon Sousa in 1993

Gordon Sousa......famous????

Re: Purchased a Yellow Lab from Gordon Sousa in 1993

All I can think of.

Re: Re: Purchased a Yellow Lab from Gordon Sousa in 1993

Got ya!!!

Re: Re: Purchased a Yellow Lab from Gordon Sousa in 1993

Doesn't matter if you don't like this person or not but you should keep your nasty comments to yourself, unethical to post what you did!

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Replying to:

All I can think of.

Re: Re: Re: Purchased a Yellow Lab from Gordon Sousa in 1993

Melissa,

Sorry this has turned sour but honestly, this man has done a LOT of people wrong in this breed and you would be best to find a reputable breeder with these lines elsewhere.

It won't be hard to do.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Purchased a Yellow Lab from Gordon Sousa in 1993

I have to agree....sorry....but there are many other reputable breeders out there with those lines....
Good Luck in your search.

Re: Purchased a Yellow Lab from Gordon Sousa in 1993

google his name...I did and came up with a couple of addresses.........play detective and you'll find him.

Re: Re: Purchased a Yellow Lab from Gordon Sousa in 1993

I obviously did that and all his info was out of date. Thanks!

Re: Re: Re: Re: Purchased a Yellow Lab from Gordon Sousa in 1993

Wow, that's harsh.

Re: Re: Re: Purchased a Yellow Lab from Gordon Sousa in 1993

Folks - thanks for your replies, but I'm looking for his contact information, not critiques on him.

Re: Re: Re: Purchased a Yellow Lab from Gordon Sousa in 1993

Maybe there's a reason that no one is offering recent contact information and that his public information is out of date. You'd be well served to pay attention to what people are telling you.

Re: Purchased a Yellow Lab from Gordon Sousa in 1993

>>>Breeder posted "Melissa,

Sorry this has turned sour but honestly, this man has done a LOT of people wrong in this breed and you would be best to find a reputable breeder with these lines elsewhere.

It won't be hard to do. "<<<

Listen to Breeder. They have the correct information and were kind about things done wrong.

Go to the JSLRC or Mid-Jersey web-sites for breeder referrals in your state. You deserve a healthy pup & that breeders line was not. Health was the last concern. You were lucky to have a healthy dog. Godspeed Bruce.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Purchased a Yellow Lab from Gordon Sousa in 1993

Just to flip the coin I purchased my first lab thru Gordon and she was the sweetest girl ever-I stayed in contact with Mr Sousa for the life of the dog and never had an issue with him returning calls etc. I have read other posts here about stud dog owners not returning calls when first breedings did not take and the dams owner tried to get their "second breeding"..I have read dam co-owners not responding when the other party tried to reach out to them re: papers etc.. Why this venom at Gordon-perhaps you have your own stories but that attitude should not be aired here unless you are the picture of perfection-yes, there are many wonderful breeders out there but there are also those who fall into the same category you want to put Gordon in-there are good and bad in all lines of work. If this post loved her dog can't you understand why she would want one just like him-don't many seek the same..

Re: Re: Purchased a Yellow Lab from Gordon Sousa in 1993

Thanks you BRDR...
You are absolutely right about the health...The OP was very fortunate to have had a healthy dog, but many were not.

Re: Re: Re: Purchased a Yellow Lab from Gordon Sousa in 1993

In all my 40 years in this breed I have never seen a more cruel bunch of people. Many of you probably never knew this man personally or even did business with him. You just go on rumors that maybe a few people started. You tell people he one of the worst instead of judging people by your own experiance. I hear this about other breeders they say awful things based on rumor not FACTS!

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Replying to:

Thanks you BRDR...
You are absolutely right about the health...The OP was very fortunate to have had a healthy dog, but many were not.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Purchased a Yellow Lab from Gordon Sousa in 1993

Thank you for your comments Long Time Breeder. I've taken everyone's comments and I appreciate them all - - good and bad. I tell you though, this seems to be a very catty industry, and for those of you who have had bad experiences with him, I apprecaite your honesty and for those wiht good things to say about him, I appreciate that too. I'm not coming into this completely blind, like I said, I had a dog from him that was incredibly healthy and lived a very long life. I don't think that was a fluke. Thanks again everyone, I have the information that I need.

Re: Purchased a Yellow Lab from Gordon Sousa in 1993

again, I suggest doing a Google search........then try contacting the ppl mentioned as co-owners etc with this guy.........put the word out with these ppl that obviously know him that you are looking to contact him............I bet a nickel I'd have him tracked down before the end of the day...

but I have my own unsolved mysteries to work on



best of luck in your search!!

FYI, I was asked yesterday if I knew how to contact G.S. as a person "you" was looking for him......my suggestion to be passed on to you was to post here!

Re: Re: Purchased a Yellow Lab from Gordon Sousa in 1993

I Googled him 3 days ago and spent all this time on the internet looking for a contact number him. His old phone number is a vaccum store and another number is now something else. I have an address for him, but short of driving an hour and knocking on his door, I don't know for sure if that was his address. I was looking for contact info on him - - a phone number so I could call him. What I've found is him listed hundreds of times as a breeder, but no contact info. Thanks again, I have found the info I was looking for through someone.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Purchased a Yellow Lab from Gordon Sousa in 1993

I have known and worked with Gordon through the years-I have not encountered any issues with my breedings with him and have found him to be not only kind but a wealth of information as well. He is ahead of most in his fertility knowledge and was employing techniques years ago that many are just now implementing. I have never had a miss with him and, my litters have all been good sizes. He has worked with many of the top breeders as well as many "newbies". Please-do not pass judgement unless you know all the facts.

Re: Re: Purchased a Yellow Lab from Gordon Sousa in 1993

He was at Potomac exhibiting..he was also written up in "The Labrador Retriever-Dorothy Howe" and was interviewed for his story in the LQ-guess he was doing something right.

Re: Re: Re: Purchased a Yellow Lab from Gordon Sousa in 1993

Did you buy a vacuum?

LOL,,,,,


I have a smile on my face. The people here replying to your original request are what makes this sport/hobby/pasttime/obsession an unbelievable frustrating thing.

Opinions fly around here like moths. Take a small piece of information (2nd hand at best - 6th or 8th hand) and run with it.

Do yourself a favor - do not ask questions here - unless you want a laugh.

and the breeder with 40 yrs experience and this is the first time you heard of such rancor? Where did you breed? Under the rock in the back of a cave?

You know how mean spirited and gossippy people can and have been. The only difference is this piece of junk we type on.

I would buy the vacuum at any rate - your new puppy will be shedding and tearing stuff up. I hope all goes well.

Re: Re: Re: Purchased a Yellow Lab from Gordon Sousa in 1993

He was not in the original edition of the Dorothy Howe book. He was in the revised edition written after Dorothy Howe's death. The 1980s revision had additional sections added at the end of the book by the TFH editors, and were written by Annaa Katherine Nicholas.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Freddy Lipton

Dear Freddy you didn't understand my comment. I have seen it and heard it for all of my 40 years! I guess seeing the attacks on people and other breeders here on the internet makes it really terrible. Before it was horrible enough but it wasn't in print to be seen forever. I actually don't encourage my buyers to show and if they really want to I tell them they better be prepared and get a very thick shell to wear. All it takes is ONE person to ruin you and trust me there is no forgiveness in this sport. Have a great day.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Purchased a Yellow Lab from Gordon Sousa in 1993

All I can say is w-o-w.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Purchased a Yellow Lab from Gordon Sousa in 1993

Isn't it amazing how so many people rose to the occasin of letting you know what they felt?

Re: Purchased a Yellow Lab from Gordon Sousa in 1993

'In all my 40 years in this breed I have never seen a more cruel bunch of people. Many of you probably never knew this man personally or even did business with him. You just go on rumors that maybe a few people started. You tell people he one of the worst instead of judging people by your own experiance. I hear this about other breeders they say awful things based on rumor not FACTS!'

THE TRUTH;FACTS------NOT RUMOR! 40 year breeder I feel sorry for you or you have blinders on.
I knew him and did do business with him. That's all it was to him.... sales business. "Turbo Charge your Breeding Program!" I can not say anything good except his timing of breedings well..... thanx to friendly George Govette teaching him.

V was a dog that threw Seizures & Epilepsy & his owner contined to breed him knowing it...... Terrible! Ask any real Long Time Breeder that knew. I have a blind dog I bought with PRA & litters with lots of severe E.D. Not DJD 1. My bitches had clear elbows. The stud dogs of his didn't have elbow clearances. I was younger & neive. Now I'm old as dirt and smarter.

Breeders in Europe knew not to breed to V or his offspring.... it took the people in Canada and the States a longer time to find out.

Melissa; you were lucky as another breeder told you to have a healthy dog that was related to V.

I know you can find a healthy puppy from different lines after loosing your heartdog Bruce from N.j. clubs..... You had alot of luck to have a healthy dog related to Vanny or that line of dogs......

Here are those clubs sights.... they will help you find a good breeder to find your pup.....
GodSpeed Bruce.


http://www.mjlrc.org/

http://www.jerseyskylandslrc.com/

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Purchased a Yellow Lab from Gordon Sousa in 1993

Yes! The request wasn't for an opinion!

Re: Re: Purchased a Yellow Lab from Gordon Sousa in 1993

That is very interesting; thanks for the information!

Re: Purchased a Yellow Lab from Gordon Sousa in 1993

That sounds like disparaging remarks to me.

hey ANOTHER BRDR, put your real name down and lets see if you have a clean slate!

Re: Purchased a Yellow Lab from Gordon Sousa in 1993

I have written many times of my support for anonymous posting on this list. My opinion has not changed. However, trashing a specific person under the cover of anonymity is gutless.

I always post anonymously. I openly disagree with other posters sometimes (as I am doing now). But it is simply wrong to be so insulting of a specific person without having the courage to post your name. It is worse that the person you are trashing is not even a poster in this thread.

I do not know Mr. Sousa and therefore can not defend him. I mean this in regard to general courtesy.

Re: Re: Purchased a Yellow Lab from Gordon Sousa in 1993

To:ANOTHER BREEDER
Are you kidding me or what...shame on you..these remarks were as damaging to him (who is not here to defend himself or your accusations) as you claim his breeding was to you!
Would you post the names of the breeders active today who are using a well known stud dog who they know throws TVD..
Has your name yet appeared in books, or have you been in the LQ or have you shown at and won at westminster in your career since you are now "old as dirt and smarter"..if so post your name so we can pick apart your sales pitches and what your dogs do or do not throw.
Many dogs back in those years did not have elbow clearances and even with the tools today every breeding is still a roll of the genetic dice.
You are an angry person-I feel more sorry for you than anyone else-it is not just Gordon Sousa who wound you up.

Re: Purchased a Yellow Lab from Gordon Sousa in 1993

Not only are these witch hunts unhealthy, they are also the fruit of much ignorance....

Re: Purchased a Yellow Lab from Gordon Sousa in 1993

I never had his lines but he was at Potomac and I did talk to him. He was looking at my stud dog to possibly use on a bitch that he co-owned. I hadn't seen him in many years but he has always been pleasant. They did use my boy and I could dig for the co-owners address if you don't come up with his info.

Re: Re: Purchased a Yellow Lab from Gordon Sousa in 1993

I think it really stinks that some of you are slandering this guy, I don't know him or what he's done or hasn't done but unless any of you can look in the mirror and say you've done everything right you should shut your stinking mouths!

Sounds to me like this guy was successful with his breeding program and produced nice dogs that won and lots of you are jealous. And as for health problems in any dogs he's bred, come on now people, give me a break, everyone has produced something bad in their lines and if you haven't yet produced something bad then you haven't been breeding long enough for it to happen to you but if you continue to breed i'll bet my last dollar you will.

I am surprized that Jill has let this go on.

Re: Re: Re: Purchased a Yellow Lab from Gordon Sousa in 1993

I must put my two cents in for what it is worth..
I met Gordon many years ago as a newbie..he welcomed me and my girl into his home, evaluated her, reviewed her pedigree, health certs and spent two hours of his day educating me. He had three young children then, a kennel full of beautiful specimens, a litter of pups in his kitchen and a couple waiting for a breeding. He was kind, patient, full of important information and had a sense of humor. The very first thing he told me was "You never want to give a family a heartache" The first breeding I ever did with him he would only take half a stud fee up front and said "if she has pups you can pay the other half when they arrive"-he did not knew me but trusted me anyway. Over the years he helped plan a few breedings-he never pushed his own stud dogs but would steer me to other kennels where the pedigrees were better matched and the dogs complimented each other. When I encountered issues with a litter he was the first to return a phone call, even before the vet could-I had a diagnosis before I spoke to the DVM, and by the way-he was always right on. He gave many newbies a chance and many of you went on to start your own kennels-are still showing and breeding today and you have him to thank for that first foundation girl or planning the breeding that produced your first CH.
In all the years I have known him he has always been there with advice and friendship-even though he has faced many, many challenges life has dealt him-and which you have no ideas of.
As we all know it usually takes two dogs to produce pups, very rarely can we attribute a health defect or issue to just one dog but the stud is usually the one to take the blow. We also know every dog anyone built a foundation on came from the work of someone before us and that no lines are perfectly clean-like previous poster said-if you are in this long enough stuff will pop up-even with the best laid plans.
I have never before read a thread that went this long that allowed a persons name or a dogs name to publicly bashed..Gordon reached goals in this breed that some of you finger pointers will never accomplish.
We all make mistakes in life-we should all be more forgiving-you may one day walk in those same shoes.

Re: Purchased a Yellow Lab from Gordon Sousa in 1993

What someone says doesn't mean they obey by that statement in breeding decisions. It just looks good. Believe me.

Re: Purchased a Yellow Lab from Gordon Sousa in 1993

Huh???

Re: Re: Re: Purchased a Yellow Lab from Gordon Sousa in 1993

hello from finland...
surprized at your ugly comments, think hard. someone has owned the labrador of their life, which is what this is all about. no one to them this person has given what they have enjoyed and loved all these years. there is something you don´t get, maybe a long, good look in the mirror might give you something to think about?
best.
ritva

Re: Re: Re: Re: Purchased a Yellow Lab from Gordon Sousa in 1993

Ritva - I agree. When I placed this posting, what I was looking for was contact information. I have since received that and some other useful information, for which I'm grateful.

I've read every posting, and appreciate everyone's comments, and their opinions. And the p-a-s-s-i-o-n! But, everyone needs to realize that when you make these comments on a public forum, it stays there.

It's not fair to post nasty comments about someone and not put your own name. Like someone else had said, put down your own name, and let's see how clean your slate is.

When I put my post on this website, I supplied my email address; warnings and bad reviews and horror stories could have been sent directly to me if you felt he is/was that bad of a breeder. But you chose not to do that, rather to grandstand and start this sh*t storm where the subject couldn't even defend himself. Worse, posting them publicly and hide your name at the same time is childish; if you wanted so badly to discourage me from getting another dog from him, you should have emailed me directly. But in light of how nasty this had become, please do not contact me directly.

Furthermore, while I read everyone's opinions, I don't think I had a terrific, healthy dog from Mr. Sousa as the result of a fluke or an accidental success. And, at the time we purchased Bruce, we hadn't brought enough money (because we were 22 years old and had no idea how much dogs were); Gordon let us take Bruce (his pick of the litter) home anyway and we sent him a check a week later. That doesn't sound like a money-hungry breeder to me.

Like I said, I do appreciate everyone's passion regarding this subject, but had I known it would turn into this unprofessional name-calling, I would have never put this posting up. I would have sacrificed getting the information I wanted if it could have meant not having this banter regarding a man many of you don't even know.

Thanks and please, let's put a stop to this nonsense.

Melissa

Re: Purchased a Yellow Lab from Gordon Sousa in 1993

The fact is he did breed beautiful dogs. And yes, his knowledge in breeding/fertility is wonderful.

However, the health issues that we dealt with on a co-own bitch that went blind from PRA and produced too many pups with hip and elbow problems (some needing surgery) were heart breaking.

We refunded money on a number of pups and paid for surgery but our "Co-Owner" would not stand behind his dogs and never paid his share of surgeries or reimbursement. We were left with a bitch we would never breed again and the keeper of our last litter out of her that ended up with elbow surgery on both legs and could never be bred. We trusted "this breeder" and were left having to start all over with our breeding program.

Certified letters went unanswered.

This is not heresay. It is the cold hard truth.

Find another breeder for a pup. I truly believe you were lucky in the health of your boy. You most likely won't be so lucky with "this breeder" the second time around.

Re: Re: Purchased a Yellow Lab from Gordon Sousa in 1993

First, I'm sorry for what you and the pups went thru..
If you co-owned her and bred her I'm assuming you did all heath certs and that she passed...
If so how were the problems that resulted his fault..does that mean every foundation girl bred who produces problems down the road is the fault of the breeder you purchased her from?
And when you say her "last litter" how many did she have-pups with all those issues should have probably presented with some lameness/limping by age one if the problems were as severe as you say. Why was she bred again?

There is no excuse for not returning calls, etc and if he took money from the litters than the costs should have been split-unless you had other arrangements.

Re: Purchased a Yellow Lab from Gordon Sousa in 1993

All of the stories sound so familiar to me. Many posters chose their words gently. I've been through much of the same. Some was worse, some not as bad. I won't elaborate but it's happened repeatedly to so many of us to different degrees.

Thank your mentor that treats you well and teaches you the right way to do things. Thank the stud-dog owner who treats you kindly and with honesty. Especially, hug your Labs that are healthy and alive, special hugs for the ones that aren't healthy. Have good memories of the Labs that went to the Bridge way before their time should have come and could have been avoided.

Too many of mine are and were in these situations for the wrong reasons that could have been prevented.

Re: Purchased a Yellow Lab from Gordon Sousa in 1993

To Gently-
You are a kind person and I wish there were more postings like yours on here. Most of what ends up on here is evil. You have had the same bad experiences as some on here, yet you chose to word it without crucifying the subject. Bravo.

Re: Purchased a Yellow Lab from Gordon Sousa in 1993

Our lab, Shamus, was born 8/9/93 and purchased from Gordon Sousa. Shamus was the best thing that happened to our family of three boys. He died 1/29/09 and never had health problems, maybe an ear infection now and then. Our years with him were the best.