We have at least 1 puppy murmur in every litter from one of our lines that resolves by 16 weeks. Mom and Grandma cleared by ausculation, studs cleared by color doppler.

I will do an echo on the pups once they are 20 weeks IF they still have the murmur - murmur always was gone by then, so have never done an echo on the pups.

What percentage statistically disappear - can't find it online.

Also, I've used the articles below for pup families but wonder if there is something better to give them?

Article:


Heart murmurs can occur in puppies or young dogs during their rapid growth phases. Puppies in the one to four month range require a high cardiac output during their period of rapid growth. This increased output is often enough to produce the velocity necessary to create turbulence, which results in a heart murmur. This is quite normal and is termed an innocent or functional murmur. Most puppies lose these murmurs in adulthood.
http://www.petwave.com/Dogs/Dog-Health-Center/Heart-and-Blood-Disorders/Heart-Murmurs/Causes.asp

Another article:
It is very common for young puppies, especially large breed puppies, to develop an innocent heart murmur while they are growing rapidly. The murmur may first appear at 6-8 weeks of age, and a puppy with an innocent heart murmur will usually outgrow it by about 4-5 months of age. This type of murmur is benign.
In general, a physiologic or innocent heart murmur will have a low intensity (usually Grade I-II out of VI), and does not cause any symptoms or clinical signs.
http://www.vcahospitals.com/main/pet-health-information/article/animal-health/heart-murmurs-in-dogs/3912

In 20 plus years of breeding I have had exactley one Heart Murmur. It did resolve itself.

My question is why would you continue to breed lines that produce at least one pup with a murmur every litter? That does not sound like your goal is to better the breed, sounds more like bettering the wallet.

I sure hope nobody I know gets involved with your pups.

JMHO

I am sorry you misunderstood. ALL MURMURS RESOLVED by 16 weeks. I do breed to better the breed. Parents are titled on both ends, have about every clearance imaginable. They do not produce epilepsy or TVD or anything causing health, temperament or life impacting issues.

Just a question, do all your dogs do performance like mine, or do they sit around without mind stimulation?

As far as bettering the wallet - in all the many years I have been breeding do you want to know my profit? - my husband just figured it out - $700 - that's it, years and years of showing and competing.

No, Just Me, I am not just in it for the wallet.

just me wrote, 'In 20 plus years of breeding I have had exactley one Heart Murmur. It did resolve itself.

My question is why would you continue to breed lines that produce at least one pup with a murmur every litter? That does not sound like your goal is to better the breed, sounds more like bettering the wallet.

I sure hope nobody I know gets involved with your pups.

JMHO"

Just me doesn't sound humble, as in JMHO, but opinionated about something that has nothing to do with reality."just me" needs to talk to a cardiologist about the age of onset of 'puppy murmurs" that go away. Innocent flow murmurs can be a growth stage, and can even be a result of temporary conditions, including excitement, anemia or slight dehydration while panting on first car ride to the vet. (Before which one often withholds food and water for a little while to prevent a nauseating first car ride experience. I would be concerned if they DIDN"T resolve, but a murmur that consistently resolves within a line is a pain in the neck but not a pathologic issue. That's why they are called innocent or benign murmurs.

OP may also wish to echo the dams she owns rather than just using sires who were echoed since this is a concern. Another thought is to take the puppy in question to a cardiologist for a rule out, even just an auscultation. If the cardiologist operates out of a clinic that sees a lot of emergency cases that include puppies with parvo, the young pup should be carried in and NOT passes around or walked there.

From my understanding there are many dogs that pass auscultation, but do not pass echo. Also, dogs that pass auscultation (and from my understanding even echo)still can produce TVD. It would be interesting to follow and document how many of these innocent murmurs that are said to have resolved themselves to be indeed resolved, or just that the dog and heart has grown so the murmur can not longer be heard by auscultation and be mild effected? Mild effected dogs with TVD can live a normal life span, so being in pet home unless there is a problem we would never know?

Dr. Tyrell...cardiologist in VA. Explained to me that 70% of all puppies born have murmurs. I don't know where he got that figure, but he's the expert so I will trust him.

An innocent murmur is just that INNOCENT! The problem is deciphering which is innocent and which isn't. In most cases it will be innocent.
A well known ethical breeder once explained to me that a cardiologist told her....in many cases it really isn't a murmur at all. Pups around the 7-8 week stage are shedding their mother's blood cells and creating their own, causing temorary thinness of the blood which can cause the sound of a murmur as it travels through the heart, but it isn't actually a murmur at all.

So...Just Me, would you throw a pup out of the breeding program for an innocent murmur that might not even be a murmur at all?

Mild puppy anemia is normal and can cause heart murmurs in puppies. It resolves by itself when they are 3-4 month old.
How bad is the heart murmur you are getting. I wouldn't feel comfortable keeping a puppy with a significant heart murmur even if it clears later.
Once that said, you might want to add some iron in the diet (follow your vets advise on this) of your next litters and re-evaluate the presence of heart murmurs.

I so very much appreciate the idea of adding iron (I'll ask my vet with the next litter) Also, thank you for the reasonable answers/advice of those who took time to respond. Out of the four murmurs (3 with Grandma and one with her daughter), three were a Grade I one was a Grade II which resolved at 12 weeks.

The murmurs are so difficult to catch - 2 were missed by my vet who is a repro vet and use to seeing lots of puppies. Those 2 were caught by the new families vets.

The lay definition of a Grade I murmur is that a Practitioner can't hear it but a Cardiologist can.

Another thought is to make sure that you worm for hookworm and/or coccidia, if your litters ever break with that, as they can cause blood loss.

Do keep in mind that the puppy's first visit to a new vet with new people can be stressful, so maybe that is why a murmur did not present at your vet. Or maybe your vet can only hear more significant murmurs. My repro vet can't hear a grade I murmur.

These don't sound like big worrying murmurs, but one sure can throw a wrench in a relationship with new puppy owners. Maybe you need to have your litters checked by someone more likely to hear the low grade murmurs, so that you can disclose them. Maybe the vet who found them for other buyers, if they are close, would be good? Or use a cardiologist. It could save a heap of problems (distrust, hurt feelings, your time) over the first couple months the pup is with the new owners!

Good luck. Biology--can't live with it, can't live without it!

An innocent puppy murmur will decrease between 12 and 15 months of age. A TVD murmur will worsen at that age.

When I took a litter in for the well puppy exams, my vet found 4 with heart murmurs. I came home and immediately booked an appointment for them with a board certified cardiologist. He and his intern listened to all 4. He could not hear a murmur in 2 puppies. He said that is very common and it is quite possible to hear a murmur, and not be able to detect it several days later. One had a grade I that he said I did not have to worry about. The 4th had a grade II. I brought the 4th puppy back at 3 months and she was fine.

Yes - "been there" - at 3 months to 4 months a puppy's innocent murmur can go away.