Just wondering if any one else has been experiencing small litters when using Mini Tube?
I always have used Clone with tremendous results but I don't seem to get that with Mini Tube.
The semen has looked good upon arrival but something has gone sideways.
Any comments would be appreciated.

Yes. We have stopped using Minitube products because of this issue.

Breeder

Just wondering if any one else has been experiencing small litters when using Mini Tube?
I always have used Clone with tremendous results but I don't seem to get that with Mini Tube.
The semen has looked good upon arrival but something has gone sideways.
Any comments would be appreciated.

I haven't personally had problems with Mini Tube but have heard about many others with small litters or misses that I finally made a decision. ~If~ the stud dog I'm using is within 7-8 hours driving distance maximum, I travel and do a side by side AI with fresh semen. Let me make it clear, I do not choose a stud dog because he's within driving distance. If he happens to be, I drive to him.

Heck, we drive up to & longer for some shows. The Potomac takes me 9 hours & other shows I attend are close to that. So why not drive for a fresh semen AI if it's workable for the bitch owner's schedule & distance? I'm aware many work outside of the home. I'm lucky I only work 3 half-days & can easily change my hours.

So, if the stud dog is within a reasonable distance I will drive it. I book a cheap, clean, dog friendly hotel room nearby unless I'm friends with the stud dogs owner. Then I stay there with an additional savings. If in a hotel, I check out & return for a 2-nd breeding the following day. I then drive home. It's a similar cost to shipping & extender. Now if the stud dog is on another coast or too far to drive to, the semen is shipped obviously.

I also prefer Clone products. They're around a long time. I've heard good things about Camelot too. Some stud dog owners use Clone, others don't or won't. I've also heard of some breeders who swear by Mini Tube especially Chill 10 with egg. Maybe each batch is different or some girls don't tolerate it. Some research might be helpful if Mini Tube is willing to do so. A basic poll amongst breeders might be a good beginning.

I happen to live near CLONE and have always used them. I don't use them because they live nearby but am lucky they are. Never a problem. They were recently sold to another vet practice and are much better organized with lots of office staff who are very attentive and understand breeders. Give them a try if you're looking.

We all check the semen when it arrives and the semen looks good so why wouldn't the amount of pups be the same as with Clone etc? Has anyone spoken to the Minitube company? Wouldn't the repro Vet know bout this and advise us not to use it? Afterall the repro's want large and no miss litters for us?

We all check the semen when it arrives and the semen looks good so why wouldn't the amount of pups be the same as with Clone etc? Has anyone spoken to the Minitube company? Wouldn't the repro Vet know bout this and advise us not to use it? Afterall the repro's want large and no miss litters for us?

I agree, have had misses for the first time ever and many with small litters. And also agree it looks okay out of the female. A breeder goes to so much expense, all expenses up now. FedEx out of sight. Might be easy for the stud dog owner but it is killing us. Stud dog owners need to be checking on this for all. Please !

Been a few years, but Camelot one breeding to colorado for Nor Cal 10 pups. Yes shipping expenses are just crazy.

Used Minitube for a few years now with my stud dog and he's sired normal litters - anywhere from 6 to 11 pups. Maybe if you're getting small litters from different studs you should test the bitch ( mycoplasm) and test your water if you have well water too.

I'm curious when folks started to see this trend. I only breed 1-2 litters a year, but have used the Mini-Tube chill 5 w/ 2 litters (2010 and 2011) and got 9 pups each time. Since I'm getting ready for another soon, I find this news a little alarming!

I noticed it about the last 24 months.
It's not the girl or boy in my case.
Something else is going way wrong.
We need more info in Mini Tube ....maybe they changed something?
Shipping is simply insane these days!!

My last litter one year ago was with Minitube and had 11 puppies. My litter the year before, also Minitube, 9 puppies and was an older bitch too.

Could it be that some stud dog owners new to using Mini Tube are not following the exact directions for Mini Tube preparation ? I've also had small to zero puppies in my litters where the stud dog owner sent me Mini Tube. I have had better luck doing side by sides in recent years.

As a stud dog owner, I can attest that we have shipped out to 4 different bitches using Minitube in the last 6 mos and all have conceived and had normal sized litters for that bitch...all have been between 6-8 puppies. Semen has always been in excellent condition when it arrived.

That said...it seems to me that I have read or heard that a cause for a miss could be a reaction by the bitch to a particular extender? I cannot remember where I saw this.

I asked my repro vet if a bitch can have a bad reaction to extender. He said he never had a case and would think it would be extremely rare.

We did a shipping with Mini Tube. Did progesterone and talked with a repro vet. The Repro vet said one breeding based on the bitches progesterone would be perfect and she would conceive. We got the semen in excellent condition and bred her... Two months later no puppies... We know it wasn't our bitch because she has had consistant litters of 4 and that is what we expected.

Talking with the stud dog owner they said the repro vet that collected and mixed the semen had mentioned that Mini Tube is extending well on the dogs but making the sperm not strong enough to penetrate the eggs...

That being said, I now know that not all vets use good progesterone testing centers. A good Repro vet knows which labs are dead on accurate as compared to a general practice vet who uses human testing labs.

That is also something to think about....

Glad to hear there are others with this issue but sorry to hear about all the misses when shipping is so darn expensive!

My last two shipments of my stud dog that I sent out resulted in 11 puppies and 9 puppies using Chill 5. My side to side breeding with the stud dog which I drove 6 hours one way resulted in 2 puppies.

No problems here. Bred two bitches recently with chill 5. One had a normal sized litter, the other looks very big for only being this far along.

Also have studs and use chill 5. His last few litters have been 3, 9, 8, 11.

I'm sure the bitch owner with 3 pups would be willing to chime in here, but the bitch owner with 9 pups received extender from the same batch, same expiration date, only a week before.

I think sometimes things happen. Sometimes bitches don't have a ton of pups no matter what they did before. IMO - people are just looking for something to blame, when it's just life. Unpredictable and sometimes disappointing.

The only time one of my bitches has missed, it was a healthy girl who had two large litters previously. She was bred side by side to a dog with good semen who was used several times that month. All bitches bred to him using Chill 5 took and had 8 or more puppies. My bitch missed. Who do I blame there? The stud owner? I can't, that would be me. I saw the semen with my own two eyes and it looked great.

We had one of our boys being used a lot last year and not getting good results with chill 5 extended by me at home no litters or 1-2 pups
So we started using a repro vet who collects, analyzes, spins and extends with chill 10
Still NO puppies on 4 more bitches!
Semen looked more than fantastic on our end with full printed out analysis each time
Thats 8 collections!
Bitches all prog tested and inseminated by a vet on other end
Boy has never missed a bitch with fresh semen
Switched to another brand of extender and now we are getting normal litters again
Explain that

We have used Minitube extender on our last 4 breedings. 2 different males. Semen was analysed as lots of active normal sperm all 4 collections. Upon arrival to the 4 different Repo vets the semen looked good with lots of active swimmers. Results with one male was 2 pups first breeding and no pups second breeding. The other male also was first breeding 2 pups and the second breeding no pups. These males are bred natural with 7-9 pup litters here at the kennel I am suspicious that the sperm looks good upon arrival but too weak to penetrate the egg. The breedings were 4 different Repo vets in 4 different states. Hard to believe all 4 are doing something wrong.

Just did a breeding, the stud dog owner had me ship the chill 5 extender from mini tube. I have never used it before. My girl did not get pregnant. The semen looked great when received. Did all the pg testing at my vet and did 2 AI's on my girl with pg results showing high teens and low 20's and the breeding did not take. I bred this girl before with different stud shipped and AI she had conceived 10 puppies. I don't know about this time, something was off.

Quote: That being said, I now know that not all vets use good progesterone testing centers. A good Repro vet knows which labs are dead on accurate as compared to a general practice vet who uses human testing labs. Unquote

This made me chuckle because I have a lab that is dead on accurate. He is only interested in the girls those couple of days when the girls are ready.

Chill 10 user for giving and getting stud service no problems

She was checked by vet for infections and she was put on cipro. This was the same as her last breeding. One thing I come up with is her heat cycle was a little different then the normal. She came in early, did not bleed as heavy as she usually does and I did not see the same usual swelling. Her pg #'s did fluctuate a little it when up, dropped a little and then went back up. I have questioned if she was bred one day later than she should have been. Still from the time her pg was a 5 we were still within the range of 3 days after. This was not the same extender as used the last time. Last time, we used chill 10. On her last breeding when she conceived the 10 pups, her pg#'s were also in the high teens and low 20's so that is why I don't know what is different this time other than what I have already mentioned.

We always do surgical Implants with fresh chilled semen and have never missed once out of the last 8 breeding. Largest litter 13 and the smallest litter was 8. For the most part we have only used Mini tube chill 5 except for a few stud dog owners that only use clone. We always get the results of what the semen looks like when it arrives and if I got bad result I would be on the phone with the stud do owner to try and figure this out. We try and have the semen collected and shipped the same day and then sent overnight to be used the next morning. Like someone else stated your repro vet should know the semen is not good before the breeding takes place. So if the semen is good before the breeding in my opinion the extender or semen isn't the issue.