Labrador Retriever Forum
I've seen two posts recently about FCP on the Forum but neither addresses breeding. If a bitch with a long history of elbow clearances produces a puppy with bilateral FCP in her first litter, would you breed her again or spay her? Anyone have experience with this?
No one knows anything about the mode of inheritance for this stuff. Polygenetic autosomal means it's not sex linked and beyond that it could be any one of a number of suspected causes. If she has a history behind her of generations of clear elbows, her littermates are good, etc., then why would you spay her? One case of bilateral FCP does not create a database, merely a data point. I would breed her again paying particular attention to the orthopedic strength of the sire.
I had a bitch who produced one puppy with bilateral FCP in her first litter. She was bred 2 more times to different sires from different lines and never produced it again.
I would breed her again, but to a different male (line) and keep a close eye on the kids from the second litter. If you get another joint problem, then spay would be the right thing to do.
there are so many labs
if I had a bitch that produced bad elbows i would NOT breed her again
lets work for betterment of the breed, not excuses
Did any other puppies in that litter have any problems that you know of?
There is not way to predict what your bitch might do in the future. The question is, how important is this bitch? If you have others and she is not something really special, I would not breed her again. We can bring a lot of trouble on ourselves. So the question should not be can I, but should I.
Don't discount the possibility of environmental reasons; the possibility of an injury especially to a youngster always exists.
if I had a bitch that produced bad elbows i would NOT breed her again
lets work for betterment of the breed, not excuses
LOL, have you ever had bad elbows? Do you know how influential environment and diet is on elbows, so much more than with hips? How do you know that the pup didn't jump out of someone's van too often, or jump for a frisbee one too many times? No one seems to raise "veal puppies" crated away in seclusion for fear they will hurt their joints. Dogs are dogs.
I would breed the bitch to a different male of a different line. If I produced it again, she would be spayed Though chances are she would anyway, why keep breeding the same bitch over and over, if you don't have a good bitch puppy better than her mother after 2 litters, that bitch isn't meant to be bred again. The dog with ED, fixed for sure.
You might as well continue your train of thought...
"if I had a bitch that produced light eyes, I would NOT breed her again"
"if I had a bitch that produced incorrect coat, I would NOT breed her again"
"if I had a bitch that produced a low tail set, I would NOT breed her again"
In my litter two years ago, I got a picture from one of the puppy people of the pup in mid air has it jumped straight up in the air and off a couch. They thought it was so cute. I thanked them for the picture and ask again that they not let the pup jump off anything. A couple weeks later I got an email that the pup had been limping and their vet wanted them to go to a specialist because he suspected bad elbows. grrrrr
No other bad elbows that I know of, and temperaments are wonderful. Also, I do know that the pup with ED was jumping off furniture from a very young age. Also her owners kept her on high protein puppy chow until 9 months -- and not the one I told them to use. Not casting blame at them because if the predisposition for ED wasn't there to begin with the jumping and nutrition may not have had an impact -- but I do think those things play a part in its expression.
The puppies I've seen from this litter are very, very nice -- nicer than the dam. The pup with ED is gorgeous.
I had a similar experience; lady told me she was taking her 4 mos old puppy running for 6 miles a day with her! I told her this was not a good idea,that it was like taking a preschooler for long distance runs, and was even mentioned in our contract...Lo and behold, she contacted me 4 mos later, telling me her puppy was diagnosed with arthritis in its shoulders. ( and she had the gall to ask me to pay her vet bills! )
yes I would breed from her again, one bad elbow does not make a problem, any number of things could have contributed to the problem. About 14 years ago I purchased a puppy from a breeder , the puppy was by a well known international CH, ( ended up in the USA) to finish his stud duties and was widely used there I think. The puppy I had, had there worst elbows ( yes both) that I had ever seen on x ray. Now what to do, well this is what I did, and you can shoot me if you like as I am sure some of the holier than thou set will do. I bred him to 2 different bitches ( both mine) one girl had 3 pups the other 10. None of those pups have ever had problems and yes I have kept in touch with as many owners as possible and where possible we have had the elbows xrayed and scored. One of the puppies ( now 10) I see most days in my work and while being very deaf he is still as sound as I would expect for a 10 year old, I kept one of the pups, this pup came back with a score of 0/0 elbow's and 0/0 hips in OFA terms that would be excellents all round, as did his daughter, I have never had a problem from that line since, of course I may have just been very lucky and I guess in the fullness of time I will see how lucky or not I have been. Would I breed from him again if given the opportunity ( he is long since died) no probably not, in this world of today where people get sued for much less I could not be bothered with the drama. The one thing I must say though, is that it never ceases to amaze me when long time breeders say they would not do this or that and don't breed from this bitch or that dog, yet these same breeders sell to silver breeders ( yes I know some that do) or the breeders who knowingly sell to puppy farmers. I think there are so many issues out there facing the Labrador breed, elbows is just one of these.
