Labrador Retriever Forum
General Forum
copper
Hildur@Draumalands
I've never seen a silver Labrador ever, not to mention here in Iceland! Never seen it.... I saw once a lab mix that was silver but the owner of that puppy said that he had a black labrador dam and a weimaraner sire and was therefore not a registered puppy.
I wish someone would try this breeding and let us know what you get. Weimaraner sire bred to a black dam would only produce black and maybe chocolate puppies if the dam carries chocolate. No silvers would be produced unless the black dam was Dd.
Also ever puppy I have ever sold was plain as day pointed out that the pups were registered as black, chocolate or yellow. That is their coat color Dilute black- Charcoal Dilute chocolate-silver and Dilute yellow- champagne. If you take hair from a chocolate and a silver there is little different under a microscope.
There is no way to know what that the black Lab used in Hildur's example was a pure Lab either and as we know the dilute gene is NOT in nor has ever been in the general population of Labs. It was added in the 1980s from a Weim.
I could easily duplicate this scenario by breeding my chocolate bitch to a Weim and keep a brother/sister littermate and breed them together. I would get silvers. Pretty simple. They would look exactly like any other silver out there.
The lies that were spread about breeders who "couldn't produce the color themselves" was so misleading. Any breeder worth their salt knew exactly how to breed for that IF that's what we wanted. We didn't because it's not a native gene to the Labrador.
So copper, you register your dilutes as a non-dilute color. Then you tell the unsuspecting buyer that it is a charcoal or blue or silver. THAT IS FRAUD! Those are not shades of the registered color, it is the DILUTE gene (foreign to the breed) at work. All other breeds that have an acceptable dilute gene are registered under those colors (blue danes, blue/fawn dobermans, etc). DILUTE BREEDERS COMMIT FRAUD WITH EVERY SALE. So sad.
BBEe
Breeder
She is pure black.
Not necessarily, she could be Ee at the E locus and carry yellow, just not chocolate.
Stand corrected.
simple conjecture
Someone mentions the dilution gene and the same old baseless attacks start. Big surprise.
Sure do. Reputable breeders will NEVER accept this foreign gene. Someone has to stand up for our breed that you so callously want to ruin by breeding an unnatural color.
And then you conveniently show up to try to distract from the facts that there have NEVER been any reports of "dilute" Labradors until amazingly a high profile snake oil salesman starts touting them as rare. In the beginning it was thought to be a mutated gene since he was so ignorant to how the dilute gene worked. He just stuck to breeding chocolate dilutes, but as he spread his lies and uneducated opinion fueled by the all mighty dollar, others got a hold of these dogs from him and crossed them with the other 2 two colors and saw the dilute gene at work.
As the LRC states, "There is NO genetic basis for the Silver Lab".
Oh and the silver puppies that MRW speaks about. I've seen a color photo of them. They do not look like your silver/dilute puppies. They did turn black and it was suggested the odd coloration was "simply" due to a zinc deficiency.
I know you want to defend your dilutes, but REPUTABLE breeders ALL know the dilute is a FOREIGN gene. Not to mention, it is a disqualification under the standard and SHOULD NOT be bred.
There is also a better explanation here...
http://www.vetdnacenter.com/canine-dna-coat-color.html
simply the truth
For the other breeds, I can't speak to them, I'm a Lab person.
Not quite!!! But you wish!
one breeder of
Silvers offered a $100,000 Silver Lab Challenge to any to
these “experts” who wished to put their money where their
mouth was concerning their accusations surrounding the
ancestry of the silver labs. This offer was out there for all you for a full week. And to the man, not one of
those “experts” you see on the internet was willing to
stand behind their Flat Earth accusations regarding Silver
Labs.
Breeder
one breeder of
Silvers offered a $100,000 Silver Lab Challenge to any to
these “experts” who wished to put their money where their
mouth was concerning their accusations surrounding the
ancestry of the silver labs. This offer was out there for all you for a full week. And to the man, not one of
those “experts” you see on the internet was willing to
stand behind their Flat Earth accusations regarding Silver
Labs.
Silvers offered a $100,000 Silver Lab Challenge to any to
these “experts” who wished to put their money where their
mouth was concerning their accusations surrounding the
ancestry of the silver labs. This offer was out there for all you for a full week. And to the man, not one of
those “experts” you see on the internet was willing to
stand behind their Flat Earth accusations regarding Silver
Labs.
The reason no one can prove the mix is because we ALL know that there is NO DNA test that will determine the actual breed. DNA tests can only prove the parentage. Since these crosses happened a few generation back, the parents would be correct (as would my brother to sister cross from a weim and chocolate lab). However, there was one early silver breeder that was suspended from AKC because the DNA did not match.
We now know that silver color is a direct result of the dilute gene. It's quite clear to reputable breeders who have studied, researched and bred many litters over the years, that the dilute gene is not part of the breed. That's enough proof for me.
I grew up with Weims and my parents had bred some really nice hunting stock with our bitch so I'm pretty well accustomed to what the breed looks like so I'm amused at the thought of Silvers,I do know a Weim when I see it.
I can't imagine wanting to cross that breed with Labs, but if you want to see a litter from about 40 years ago of Weim puppies that look like Labs just go on my website and on our "about us" page is our Weim bitch Senta who was accidently bred by our neighbors English Springer Spaniel. They all were black, except for a little tell tale white on their toes.They looked like Black Weimeraners. (PS the one in the back is actually a "silver" or pewter - cat!! Our cat Omar)
