Here's a bit of copy on your Hunte corp.
“Brokers do not breed dogs, they buy litters of puppies from Puppy Mills. Their business is wholesaling these pathetic creatures, enabling “Millers” to continue operations. Older animals, dogs with deformities, no longer of value to the Mills are sold at Auctions, direct from the Mills or by Brokers. The Hunte Corp., one of the largest, buys puppies from Mid West Breeders and resells to Pet Stores Nationally and Overseas. This Broker has been funded in part, by million dollar loans from the USDA. Brokers are covered under “The Animal Welfare Act”, enforced by the USDA, the same Agency charged with inspecting licenced Kennels and Brokers. Is this not paradoxical?. Hunte Corp. Chairman, Andrew Hunte, said “The loans allow us to expand our business. We deal with breeders in several “Midwest States” who can meet our Standard of quality care. Hunte Corp., has exemplary facilities in MO. Puppies are Trucked from the Mills to these facilities, where they are groomed, vetted, vaccinated and sold to Pet Shops Nationwide. Hunte Corp.,gives them good care, nevertheless, they are a successful, recognized Broker, whose income, reported to be $26,000.000 in 2002, is primarily derived from the output of Millers. Puppies must be weaned very young to go through the Hunte checkup to arrive at Pet Shops by average age of 8-10-12 weeks old.” Mrs. Paddy Magnuson,
POB 292 Delhi NY 13753
magnus@delhitel.net
Why not vent to them.
Here is the entire topic
http://www.thepuppymillproject.org/amw-hunte-corporation
I don't know what your agenda is? I dare say at least 75% (or more) of the Labrador breeders who list on this forum are hobby breeders who more or less adhere to the same philosophy on what a careful breeder does. I would say this philosophy cuts across interests as well. . . conformation, obedience, field work, just sound pets. If they make some money to support this expensive hobby. . . nobody cares. It is what happens before, during and after a whelping that matters. We all know what that is; so I won't bore the reader and preach to the choir with the steps careful breeders take to produce a quality dog. If a puppy buyer has lucked out with a puppy mill puppy, then I say, "God Bless." Me. . . I try really, really hard not to leave it up to luck. And, if things go sour, my puppy buyers know they can turn to me for support (and compensation). Ask a puppy mill owner to do that!
"The industry has come a long way and have made huge strides to improve the health of their dogs as well as the cleanliness of their facilities. They have breeder conferences and workshops to learn to breed the best way they can. They employ many people to help manage their dogs."
You seem to be quite knowledgeable about this industry. Who do you include in this industry? You also mention that this industry serves a very important purpose. It supplies the volume of puppies that the public needs. And, that the industry may do things differently (maybe, not in the best interest of the puppy) is okay because ultimately, we will have a happy, pet-filled public.
Let me give you a comparison. My friends were childless and they were very lucky to get a Chinese baby girl, a two year old toddler. Her parents gave her up because, maybe, she was not the boy that the birth parents wanted and because, the birth parents were only allowed one child. So this baby girl was raised in an orphanage until my friends luckily were matched with her. So we should all say, "thank goodness, that the Chinese had their one baby policy." My friends and a whole bunch of other people got their wonderful babies. In other words, YOU are saying the ends justify the means. Puppies for everyone. . . doesn't matter how they are raised, let's just satisfy the public. I think you do know it DOES matter how they are raised. None of us can avoid the disappointments and sadness that happen in animal husbandry. None of us produce perfect puppies. But, don't ever put me in the same category as a puppy mill operator.
Well, this article on a study that was conducted does not address the OP's question, but perhaps it is germane to the current discussion. If you can call this thread a discussion. I think someone said they wanted facts.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/canine-corner/201305/behavior-differences-in-dogs-pet-stores-versus-breeders
I think if it quacks like a duck, it probably is.
OP, you got the definition of a broker. It's pretty easy to find a reputable hobby breeder to do business with.
Offended or not, Here We Go Again, has an awful lot to say. Scream it all you want, I know what you are and so does everyone else.
You know I tell anyone and everyone to look for someone who does more with their dogs than breed them, whether it is conformation, obedience, field trials, hunt tests, hunting, agility, or tracking. I explain education is the key. Look for the person involved with an activity, who goes to educational seminars, has multiple involved breeder friends, belongs to dog clubs/groups, is breeding for the betterment of the breed. Don't get in a hurry, develope a relationship with your breeder. After all the new puppy will be a member of your family. Right???
"Here we go again"
Is it your opinion that brokers are the BETTER option for a pure bred puppy buyer?
Please be brief in your response.
To blah blah blah and RU serious. You need to get a freakin life and stop being such snobby bitches. When someone is trying to educate others and the only thing you have to offer is snide remarks it doesn't look very good on you nor says much about your character.
Animal rights bills are very much a threat to all breeders. It doesn't matter how reputable you want to believe you are. It will eventually affect you. Thank you "Here we go again" for your insight. Keep up the good fight I appreciate your education.
The only people I see here name calling and insulting are you so called reputable breeders. I would never buy a puppy from such breeders that are so nasty to others. You are really making yourself out to be outstanding people. You are the ones who reek of self righteous zealots. Breed my way or the highway or will call you a bunch of dirty filthy names. The end of the story will be when there are so many laws that you will no longer be able to breed. You may not want to hear this but dog breeding is an industry and you do produce a product that you sell for money.
After reading through this long winded thread and noting the comments made, I have to reply to the assertion made by "Idiots"(IMO, this sounds a LOT like the Here we go again poster) "The only people I see here name calling, and insulting are you so called reputable breeders. " I also did not see any mocking, bashing, name calling, insinuations that the long-winded poster was a bad person, etc. the topic was about the definition of a BROKER. The name calling and insult hurling all appears to be coming from the two posters (again, I believe they sound as if they were the same person, but since this is an anonymous board, who knows for sure?) and, since no one gives much thought to what someone says if they will not identify themselves, who really cares what they say.
You can look up Hunte corp and make up your own minds if this is something to be admired and defended.
As for me, I am also taxed, have a fancier's license (since I participate in recognized activities in dog sport)and comply with my local laws. I am not USDA inspected and am not inspected annually by the AKC since I do not broker or otherwise engage in high volume "product" for the "industry". The few puppies I breed are raised in my home, kept clean and happy, socialized well, and each one goes to a loving home with people who have personally met me and my dogs(usually a good number of times) and spent a great deal of time with before allowing them to take one of my precious puppies. I am not opposed to regulating these high volume producers of product. In fact, I wish the laws controlling their practice was even more strict than it is now. I do not believe, nor do I deserve to have some anonymous person berating me for my way of thinking since they have no right to do so. I will not listen to those long bearded cartoons wearing hair shirts standing with their placards on the corner predicting gloom and doom. I think, as a nation, we are so much better than that.
And then see if you can saying anything in defense of brokers or the Hunte Corp.
http://media.columbiamissourian.com/multimedia/2010/10/27/media/Dead_Dogs_RA_report_FINAL.pdf
Fine- as you say- this type of business is "not for you." There are a lot of businesses that "aren't for me," as well. White Castle, Petco, Wal-Mart- I don't agree with the way they do business but what they're doing isn't illegal. I choose not to patronize them but I don't go around spreading lies and rumors about what I think their business practices might be. I used to hate the idea of "puppy mills" too, but if 100% of people got bad dogs from pet stores, pet stores and puppy mills would quickly go out of business.
How do you expect to have thousands of dogs and NOT have any of them die off? In any population that large, dogs are going to die. If there were that many people, about that many would die. What was the problem was the method of disposal. Not everyone is going to cremate their animals and/or bury them with a headstone. These animals are livestock- not pets. Second, the way the article was presented seems really ridiculous- they are making up numbers that are not correct,when you look at the pictures. They are assuming each dog that died was 1-2 lbs? Some of the dogs in those pictures had to weigh 10-60 lbs.
Instead of hiding and accusing me of spreading lies, why not identify yourself? I would love to know who Hot Air, Idiots, and Here we go again really are. As to the spreading propaganda remark, just what do you think you are doing with all of your anonymous rhetoric? You said it yourself...we can't believe everything we read (especially from someone who is what? too ashamed? Too Cowardly? What have you, ....to use his own name) especially since you have tried so hard to pound out YOUR agenda.
Consider the source, in this case the anonymous sources....if you can't stand behind what you say then it is not worth reading.
Gail, or should I say Read this, up until now you were anonymous except you forgot to take off your email and had to uncloak. Not seeing an agenda by Here we go again or Hot Air, just common sense information.
I was hardly anonymous, unlike everyone else, including you. Perhaps you, Idiots, Here we go again, etc. are all one and the same? It appears so.
Have you ever heard of the word "segue"? "Read this" was merely meant as a transition into the link provided. There was nothing else implied or opined. When I voice my opinion, I use my name since I have nothing to be ashamed or embarrassed about. You might like it if you tried it. Judging by the feedback I have been getting via email, your position is a very unpopular one.
Wow- YOU were the one who brought up anonymity and how you wished you knew who "we" were and about our "real agenda" yet you have the cojones to get upset when someone else tried to do the same thing to you?
I have no agenda- I don't breed dogs, and never will. I don't like the idea of what is commonly known as a "puppy mill" and would never buy a dog from a pet store. However- I am not everyone. I want everyone to be able to buy the dog of their choice from the source of their choice. Let the market set the demand, and who succeeds, and who fails. People get so upset that the average pet owner doesn't research things the way we "dog people" would- this is just another step on their path to learning how to buy the right dog for them and their family.
No one has ever proven that puppy mill dogs are not as healthy as dogs from reputable breeders or dogs from rescues. I know plenty of people who have bought expensive dogs from reputable breeders and who have had genetic issues/problems with the breeder fulfilling their contract/temperament issues and just as many people who have those same problems with dogs from shelters or pet stores or backyard breeders. At this point, brokers and large scale breeders fill a need, as much as we may not think it's ideal. There are cruelty laws on the books- they need to be followed. There is never any excuse for treating any animal cruelly, but raising dogs in kennels and then selling them is not cruel. Disposing of dead dogs in a dump is not cruel. Selling puppies at 8 weeks old is not cruel.
And that is the crux of the matter. Not everyone looks upon dogs like YOU do. There are people somewhere, I guarantee, that would point fingers at the way you treat your dogs and find ways in which you fall short. Yeah, I would never ever dump my dog in a trash pile, but I also don't cremate my dogs and get their remains back. I have many friends that do- I would hate to think that they are thinking of me as "not compassionate" or "not saying good-bye properly." I have friends that feed BARF- I don't. I have friends that feed Purina and yes, I look down on them- but I would never suggest they aren't doing the best they can in the way they feel appropriate.
If the dogs in a large kennel environment get socialized with each other and get exercise, they are probably quite happy. It's somewhat of a conceit for us to believe we are the end all-be all of our dogs lives.
For me personally I would buy my puppy from a reputable breeder because I know better. That breeder would be one who is positive about their dogs and stands behind them without bashing other breeders. There are many other puppy buyers who don't take the time to research where they get their pet from as it doesn't really matter to them. Most are good people and get a good dog that fits their lifestyle.
Again with the generalizing sweeping statements that you really have no clue about personally but it just feels good to bash other breeders/brokers. So what if they breed and keep their dogs differently not all of them abuse them as you want to imply.
News flash** all dog breeding is considered part of an industry especially where legislation is concerned. That is why they want to regulate it so severely that you will no longer be able to have your hobby. Don't think for one minute that this legislation is going to pass you by because somehow you think you are better than other breeders because your dog sleep on cushy pillows. The lawmakers do not listen to that. They hear the terms and language that you guys use against each other and regardless of what it says on the bill breeding restrictions will affect you. why do you think the AKC fight many of the upcoming legislations? Because it will hurt the smaller breeders as well. You guys just don't get it. You would rather fight those who are trying to unite breeders.
Don't worry I would not want a dog from you. I have breeders that I work with. They are positive people. Their dogs are well taken care of. They have all their health clearances. And the breeders are well aware of what we are up against with the animal rights people.
Okay I didn't mean to be so long winded as someone else we know on here ;-)
The feeling is mutual. I am not trying to be snarky, but I would not want to buy a dog from you. At this point, when I screen breeders, part of my screening process is to see where they are when it comes to dog legislation. I know I wouldn't have much in common with someone who is actively working to kill their own rights, along with everyone elses. I really do dread the day when people will have two choices- either a shelter dog or horribly expensive black market purebred.
One more thing- in the eyes of most animal rights people, there is NO SUCH THING AS A RESPONSIBLE BREEDER. That includes you, with your well-bred every 18-24 months litters with all the health checks and genetic testing. It sounds like you have never spent any time reading what ARs and many rescue people think of us. Check out the I Hate Dog Breeders page on Facebook sometime and then make your decision. Are you really standing with those people, and willing to be the baby thrown out with the bathwater?
It is our job as responsible breeders to educate the public, the legislators and the ignorant animal activist supporters that there IS a huge difference between us and commercial breeders. To say we have to stand with mills/brokers despite disagreeing with most everything they do is akin to saying to be pro-child one has to support pedifiles, it's ridiculous.
There are so many tolls (or maybe just one) that it's hard to take this thread seriously.
Please- go to the I Hate Dog Breeders page on FB and then come back and tell us we are "tolls" (sic). Start reading the comments on the vast majority of dog related news stories- breeders are all lumped together and are ALL bad. Do you believe that if large scale dog breeders and brokers were put out of business tomorrow, that people who are against breeding dogs would NOT turn to the hobby breeders who are doing everything "right"? There are people on Cafe Press who have bumper stickers for sale that say "Save a dog- kill a breeder." This is our future.
You are equally passionate for your cause and in your mind all breeders are the same. You are very vocal and very active pushing against any anti-breeding legislation. These are your words with a few substitutions. They are on one end of the fanatic see-saw, and you are on the other.
I went to the I Hate Dog Breeders Facebook page and it had 19,709 likes. This is a tiny, tiny part of the population of the USA estimated to be 316,668,567 by July 2013. The percentage is .00006%
We must be larger as a group of all dog breeds and breeders than all of the anti breeding groups put together. Does anyone have the numbers of breeders?
I've been watching this thread quietly for a couple of weeks now and I have just one question for Here We Go Again....
Exactly what is your agenda here? Feel free to email me - but please do me the courtesy of not doing so anonymously.
How do you propose we unite if everyone can put their opinions aside?
Don't you love when trolls get loose on the forum? As if whatever one says to the other will change anything. Boring.
OH FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, you just don't get it do you. The majority here have heard you and still don't agree with you. You have your opinion and have made it very clear, and we have ours. Give your fingers a break. Go clean your kennels, feed your dogs or something useful.
Don't think for one minute that the amount of views correlates to the amount of people reading your long winded posts. I skip yours because I've heard your view ad-nauseam. Too much bandwidth IMO. When it comes to archiving to conserve bandwidth I hope this thread is left off. You could state your point more concisely and get off your soapbox to be more impressionable. Move on already. I wish I knew your name so I could avoid you.
I skimmed through your text I didn't read it. I never called you any names either so quit whining.
You are too much.
Your opinions are valid and worth considering. Your presentation is threatening and bullying. There are many of us who have written to our state governments and Congress and we are part of the reason that PAWS did not pass several years ago. We are well beyond that now and unfortunately not much better off. Someone who comes on our forum and berates us as you have is not going to win us over to your approach. We are in deep trouble with PETA and the AR but none of us admire high volume breeders and few of us are willing to get into bed with them on these issues. It is truly sad to think that we may have to support them in order to continue on with our own hobbies. Try to come up with another approach and you might get us listening again. I don't have the answers or I'd have said it already.
Maybe i'm suddenly supid and can't read well (never the case before or while at Xxxxxxxx U under grad or at both grad schools I attended.)
I thought this thread was about brokering & another thread had been about The Today Show, AKC, and AR's?
This thread's arguing has upset me. As breeders, we should be working together. Division will only cause us further, near future problems with AR's in my humble opinion although this thread was NOT about AR's. It is or was about Labrador Brokers.
That's the problem. It gets sickening when one person is always hijacking others threads with their own agenda. Start your own damn thread.
You aren't making any sense. Go home poster you're drunk.