Sally, I have produced at least one affected, and believe me, it hasn't been a "non issue" to that owner and bitch. I believe I have at least one more out there who I've offered to pay the testing for who is less affected but has collapsed w/ what appears to be classic EIC symptoms when excited. The stud's owner (stud of the 2nd pup in question) sadly also refused to disclose any testing on him to me when I asked after learning my bitch was a carrier. It's real to those who have to deal with it.
I'm with "huh?", I'm definitely not part of a labrador community that you claim to be a part of.
I am more like my beloved breed, the Labrador Retriever. Generally speaking we are loyal, trustworthy, always willing to do what our Master asks of us. We are not snarky, sarcastic, or mean-spirited.
Unfortunately, there are always those wolves in sheep's (i.e. Labrador's) clothing.
That was mean of you to be sarcastic to heartbroken.
Two lines of response- first, Sally, because of the EIC test, you can breed your bitch safely- just breed to a non-carrier. All the offspring will be carriers, but they will be healthy. Some of their offspring will be clear.
Second, there is nothing wrong with the EIC test. It identifies a mutation in the gene that encodes a protein involved in recycling a neurotransmitter that passes messages from neuron to muscle telling it to contract. Unless the recycling becomes critical to muscle function, the dog does not collapse. This mutation is necessary for EIC collapse to occur, but it is not sufficient. That is, a dog with the affected genotype may lack other factors that are required for a collapse. I am a retired geneticist, and I believe there are other genes involved. So the test would not be very useful if we were trying to produce collapsing dogs. But we aren't- we're trying to AVOI D producing collapsing dogs, and the test allows us to do that simply by having a clear parent in each breeding. I have produced a collapsing dog before the test was released, and I have a friend who bred a field bitch known to produce affected dogs to a conformation male to avoid the EIC gene, again before the test was available. That dog had never collapsed( he was a MH), but when the test became available he turned out to be affected, and her litter had multi- collapsing dogs in it. Long-Tw breeders have all heard stories of lines that are risky to cross. I think that you can have a line that carries a gene for a problem but lacks a modifying gene that also must be present in order for the problem to occur. If a breeder doesn't happen to do a cross that introduces the modifying gene, the problem doesn't appear. But if you happen to do a breeding that introduces that second gene, oops- you have a problem! The EIC test allows us to identify carriers of the most important gene. It does not identify any of the modifying genes, but we don't need to do that in order to prevent the condition.
an episode came on during labor? Is this possible? I would be scared to death of a collapse at that time
I owned an EIC affected bitch that collapsed. We talked to the researchers and they states at the time there were no documented cases of collapse during pregnancy/labor/post whelp. Our girl had 2 litters without issue. If you were truly worried, you could always schedule a c-section
I tested my breeding Labs when the test became available and was shocked to discover three of them are affected with EIC. They have never experienced a collapse (to the best of my knowledge), nor have any of my puppy buyers ever mentioned anything -- and I try to keep in contact with them. However, now that I know, I always breed to a clear. No point perpetuating a problem -- even one that is apparently innocuous -- when it's so easy to breed around. That's not to say I haven't had moments of depression when I've discovered a male I want to use is a carrier and I can't take the risk! If my bitch were clear I would, but not when she's affected. Why saddle a poor pup with the potential for collapse if it can so easily be avoided?
One other thing for windycanyon: All of my females get the same clearances as the males.
FWIW, my affected Labs are now 9, 6 and 3 1/2. The youngest is a gorgeous male - my best home bred pup ever. On the plus side, he doesn't know or care:-) He lives a pampered life with me regardless!
I also assume the stud dog owner has a say in such a breeding, and as the owner of an EIC carrier stud, I would never allow him to be bred to anything but a tested clear bitch. I have had breeders ask if I would make an exception, which surprised me, but I am not willing to risk producing affected dogs when it is such an easy thing to breed around.
I too have been disappointed to learn the stud I really liked was an EIC carrier (my bitches have all been carriers), but like another poster suggested, I have been able to find relatives or an equally nice pedigree on a clear dog. I also looked at dogs I otherwise might not have thought of. There are a lot of nice stud dogs out there, and more and more people are testing their boys, so finding a nice EIC clear boy is much easier now than it was a few years ago when few were testing and there were more unknowns than anything else.
I would not provide a service with my EIC carrier dog to a carrier or affected bitch. I would definitely not breed an affected of my own to any carrier or affected. While there still seems to be a lot to learn about the various triggers and thresholds, if we believe in the test enough to send in our money and get it done, I think we need to listen to the people who are dedicated to helping us avoid problems in our breed. Surely there's a male out there that one could find that is clear that is also a compliment to the female.
If you really do not believe in the validity of the test do not waste your money, the answer is simple. Do not test your bitches.
Sorry; I should have referenced Pauline Mortier, not you. She mentioned that she only has girls now because bitch owners expect the stud dogs to have all the clearances. Mea culpa.